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  • DarkDuke
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2008
    • 111

    MiG-31 photos, news, disscussion

    Many topics concerning MiG-31 in this board with one-side purpose, most of them are "versus".

    Since Russia is going to restart manufacturing upgraded MiG-31 and claiming designation of MiG-41 being completed, why don't we pay attention to the tends of MiG-31.

    Personally the question remained in other topic is the top speed of MiG-31 with weapon load because I don't understand Russian in that video.

    Furthermore, There is some type of MiG-31 called MiG-31BM, if my memory works right, which carried six R-37 LRAAMs beneath the fuselage in some published photo seems never flew. I wonder any experts here can contribute some photos to prove such MIG-31 being service or are there any old reconstruction of MiG-31 to this model being?
    And one more little, is inboard pylon of MiG-31 "wet" or its extra- fuel tank can only be loaded on outboard pylons.
  • MSphere
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 8983

    #2
    Let me clarify..

    The type you are referring to is MiG-31M Foxhound-B.. It was a new design with notable airframe modifications, larger radome, single piece windshield, D-30F-6M engines, RP-31M Zaslon-M radar with increased diameter (1.4m instead of 1.1m).. This type flew in six prototypes (+ one static testbed) and the program was terminated in 1991.

    MiG-31BM is an upgrade programme for the baseline MiG-31B/BS Foxhound-A. Logically, most of the technologies were inherited from the MiG-31M (WCS, radar technology..), but the aircraft are not new built, they are upgraded Foxhound-As. The radar has been upgraded to Zaslon-M standard, but its diameter of 1.1m has been retained, for example.. Around sixty MiG-31BM are in existence, AFAIK..

    One of the things which were exclusive for the MiG-31M were the long range missiles of K-37/R-37 type. MiG-31BM uses R-33S missiles, instead.

    Comment

    • Berkut
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2011
      • 2216

      #3
      So much confusion here... The MiG-31M program continued beyond 1991 and the record of shooting down the Tu-16 drone at M2.35 and 200+km range happened in 1994 iirc. There were talks few years ago about restarting MiG-31 production but MoD doesnt want to do it and are perfectly happy with BM modernization. It was basically just commies whining, it wont happen. MiG-41 is not even a paper project at this point.

      R-33S is not used "instead" of R-37 or "instead" of anything. MiG-31BM will be getting new missile known as RVV-BD in export designation and R-37M as the internal code. It will have atleast as good range as the old R-37 and be able to go after targets turning at double the G's. (up to 8G's) There are over 80 MiG-31's upgraded to BM/BSM standard.

      Comment

      • ijozic
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • May 2014
        • 613

        #4
        Originally posted by MSphere View Post
        The radar has been upgraded to Zaslon-M standard, but its diameter of 1.1m has been retained, for example.. Around sixty MiG-31BM are in existence, AFAIK..
        The updated radar retained the old antenna and is referred to as Zaslon-AM AFAIK (as the Zaslon-M was the older one used for the MiG-31M project which had a new larger antenna).
        Last edited by ijozic; 5th April 2016, 13:37.

        Comment

        • Zare
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Dec 2006
          • 213

          #5
          Berkut, do we know details about RVV-BD trials / introduction date? AFAIR it was marketed as LR-AAM option for (then called) Su-35BM in it's export brochures. I guess some of it might be public.
          R-33S is more than enough until then. It's got 230 km of theoretical range. R-37 1994 test was 280 km. But Su-30 took over at some point because SBI-16M wasn't fully operational.

          Comment

          • Berkut
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2011
            • 2216

            #6
            We dont really. I think there was some news previous year they will introduce it this year but it has been "next year" for the past 3-4 years. RVV-BD numbers are for export, real range is longer. And i rechecked, MiG-31M record was done in August of 1993 and the drone was shot down at distance of 228km while it was being tracked from 319km out.

            Comment

            • ijozic
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • May 2014
              • 613

              #7
              Originally posted by Zare View Post
              Berkut, do we know details about RVV-BD trials / introduction date? AFAIR it was marketed as LR-AAM option for (then called) Su-35BM in it's export brochures. I guess some of it might be public.
              R-33S is more than enough until then. It's got 230 km of theoretical range. R-37 1994 test was 280 km. But Su-30 took over at some point because SBI-16M wasn't fully operational.
              I don't think I've seen photos of R-33S on a MiG-31B yet. IIRC from a diagram, it is noticeably different (e.g. has a set of small wings added up front). Since it was a rather late project (just as the USSR was collapsing), I suppose it wasn't built in large numbers?

              Edit: there's actually a live image showing it:
              Last edited by ijozic; 5th April 2016, 21:05.

              Comment

              • MSphere
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 8983

                #8
                Originally posted by ijozic View Post
                I don't think I've seen photos of R-33S on a MiG-31B yet. IIRC from a diagram, it is noticeably different (e.g. has a set of small wings added up front). Since it was a rather late project (just as the USSR was collapsing), I suppose it wasn't built in large numbers?
                I don't think I have ever seen even an MiG-31BM carrying the R-33S. Do you have any pics?

                Comment

                • DarkDuke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 111

                  #9
                  That speed problem solved by what?

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9826

                    #10
                    Originally posted by DarkDuke View Post
                    That speed problem solved by what?
                    Are you referring to the canopy replacement? That has been going on for some time now, so it seems the speed limit is no longer an issue.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • stealthflanker
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2015
                      • 1027

                      #11
                      Originally posted by ijozic View Post
                      I don't think I've seen photos of R-33S on a MiG-31B yet. IIRC from a diagram, it is noticeably different (e.g. has a set of small wings added up front). Since it was a rather late project (just as the USSR was collapsing), I suppose it wasn't built in large numbers?
                      Ah interesting.. so it has canard.

                      what's range compared to baseline R-33's ?

                      Comment

                      • ijozic
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • May 2014
                        • 613

                        #12
                        Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                        I don't think I have ever seen even an MiG-31BM carrying the R-33S. Do you have any pics?
                        I never implied that I saw it on a BM; just mentioned the MiG-31B specifically as the R-33S was supposed to have been a part of that upgrade.

                        Comment

                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          #13
                          I only have seen few operational MiG-31BMs carrying armament.. All of them have baseline R-33 missiles, usually carried in pairs using asymmetric load config.
                          Looks like the R-33S is pretty elusive, not much info about it, either..

                          Comment

                          • ijozic
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • May 2014
                            • 613

                            #14
                            Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                            I only have seen few operational MiG-31BMs carrying armament.. All of them have baseline R-33 missiles, usually carried in pairs using asymmetric load config.
                            Looks like the R-33S is pretty elusive, not much info about it, either..
                            Same here, but I suppose it might be due to it entering production roughly around the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union so the numbers produced were probably limited and the lack of spare parts could be a problem as well so it's questionable how many (if any) remain operational.

                            This is all guesswork of course since there's little to no information available. Perhaps the Russian forums offer some insight into the R-33S capabilities and status?
                            Last edited by ijozic; 6th April 2016, 11:50.

                            Comment

                            • Marcellogo
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jun 2014
                              • 1840

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Berkut View Post
                              So much confusion here... The MiG-31M program continued beyond 1991 and the record of shooting down the Tu-16 drone at M2.35 and 200+km range happened in 1994 iirc. There were talks few years ago about restarting MiG-31 production but MoD doesnt want to do it and are perfectly happy with BM modernization. It was basically just commies whining, it wont happen. MiG-41 is not even a paper project at this point.

                              R-33S is not used "instead" of R-37 or "instead" of anything. MiG-31BM will be getting new missile known as RVV-BD in export designation and R-37M as the internal code. It will have atleast as good range as the old R-37 and be able to go after targets turning at double the G's. (up to 8G's) There are over 80 MiG-31's upgraded to BM/BSM standard.
                              What are the capabilities of MiG design bureau ATM in your opinion: it is possible for it to build a completely new aircraft of such a complexity while carrying on also Mig-35 further developement or it would need additional fundings?
                              Last edited by Marcellogo; 6th April 2016, 13:12.

                              Comment

                              • Berkut
                                Senior Member
                                • Nov 2011
                                • 2216

                                #16
                                Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
                                Ah interesting.. so it has canard.

                                what's range compared to baseline R-33's ?
                                It is longer. :P

                                I have very little to base it on Marcellogo other than purely anecdotal evidence; but no, i dont think MiG would be able to pull off doing MiG-41 alone if you mean that. If by some miracle MiG/Sukhoi/Yak/Mi/Ka etc survive as standalone bureau's by the time they get PAK-DP project up and running (2019) they would most certainly be doing the work together with others. Like we see Tupolev having to do with Tu-160M2 and not to mention PAK-DA, which is basically in Sukhoi's hands as far as i know...

                                Comment

                                • DarkDuke
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Aug 2008
                                  • 111

                                  #17
                                  According to fighter-planes
                                  MiG-31M MTOW is 52000kg
                                  deduct internal fuel 16350kg and dropped fuel tank on outboard pylon 2500L2 (approx 4000kg) plus max weapon load 6 R-37 weights 3600kg,
                                  remaining 28050kg for inboard pylons and dry weight for airframe.
                                  If we assume the dry weight is 23000kg then only 3000L external fuel tank which has been used by Su-24 for each inboard pylon can reach the weight remained.
                                  Is this illation reasonable?

                                  Comment

                                  • paralay
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 1418

                                    #18
                                    takeoff weight of 8 P-37 + 2 tank: 51500 kg - 200 kg (pilots) - 17,600 kg (fuel) - 5000 kg (tanks) - 4800 (8 P-37) = 23900 kg (empty weight)
                                    45900 kg (normal weight) - 23900 (empty weight) - 200 kg (pilots) - 17,600 kg (fuel) = 4200 kg (6 P-37 + 4 F-73 pylons with 4 x 40 kg)

                                    External fuel tanks for the MiG-31 - the original.

                                    Comment

                                    • Austin
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2003
                                      • 6512

                                      #19
                                      Update on follow on Mig-31 program , Looks like it will have incremental update over Mig-31 and would be netcentric

                                      http://rg.ru/2016/04/06/perehvatchik...ze-mig-31.html


                                      New fighter-interceptor based on the MiG-31 will receive an improvement of almost all important parameters, said in an interview with TV channel "Star" President and General designer of Ramenskoye design Bureau (RPKB) Givi Janjgava.

                                      - Fighter will be a continuation of ideas and technologies MiG-31: slightly increase the speed, the range of the radar, range of weapons. But the fact that it modernization is modern: its main feature is that it initially was a network plane, and this is very important, - said the expert. - In the modern world, planes don't fly solo: it is the complexes that include dozens of cars, and this significantly improves combat effectiveness. Now, the MiG-31 at a time when no one talked about network groups, had the avionics, which allowed to coordinate the group.
                                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                      Comment

                                      • Zare
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2006
                                        • 213

                                        #20
                                        Don't forget that R-33S and Zaslon-A were made because of Tolkachev's defection. They were rushed into production, also. I wouldn't be surprised if there was many (as in hundreds) of them.

                                        Comment

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