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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • paralay
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2005
    • 1418

    MiG-29 - 15000 $/hour for Russian air force 35000 $/hour for foreign customer
    MiG-29SMT - 9000 $/hour
    MiG-35 - 7500 $/hour
    Su-27 - 20000 $/hour
    Su-35S 11000 - 12000 $/hour
    F-22 - 68362 $/hour
    F-35 - 35200 $/hour

    Comment

    • haavarla
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2008
      • 6715

      Originally posted by paralay View Post
      MiG-29 - 15000 $/hour for Russian air force 35000 $/hour for foreign customer
      MiG-29SMT - 9000 $/hour
      MiG-35 - 7500 $/hour
      Su-27 - 20000 $/hour
      Su-35S 11000 - 12000 $/hour
      F-22 - 68362 $/hour
      F-35 - 35200 $/hour
      Although i think its pretty close, i am really surprised about the huge difference for legacy and new Mig's and Sukh's..
      Thanks

      Comment

      • LMFS
        Rank 4 Registered User
        • Feb 2018
        • 561

        Originally posted by paralay View Post
        MiG-29 - 15000 $/hour for Russian air force 35000 $/hour for foreign customer
        MiG-29SMT - 9000 $/hour
        MiG-35 - 7500 $/hour
        Su-27 - 20000 $/hour
        Su-35S 11000 - 12000 $/hour
        F-22 - 68362 $/hour
        F-35 - 35200 $/hour
        Thanks!

        Wouldn't this depend on the ruble / dollar exchange and oil prices?

        Comment

        • panzerfeist1
          Rank 6 Registered User
          • Feb 2018
          • 413

          I guess I found a new website to view EW equipment http://kret.ru/ in case those who have stumbled upon this and went WTF http://www.kret.com/ so I guess be on the look out if they will have any interesting news updates on airborne EW systems for this upcoming airshow.

          found some cool things

          http://www.ruselectronics.ru/news/?id=3301

          FORPOST-M, developed by the Vega Concern (part of Roselectronika), is intended for automatic radar monitoring of land and water areas of a locality as part of automated systems.
          The station detects objects within a radius of 20 km, determines the parameters of their movement and can accompany up to 50 objects at the same time, preserving the routes of their movement.
          In the upgraded version of the equipment, a new small antenna is used, due to which the dimensions of the station were reduced by 2 times.

          http://www.ruselectronics.ru/news/?id=3251


          The holding "Roselectronika" of the State Corporation Rostec has begun the development and production of unique in its technical characteristics high-speed power limiters that will be used as part of the transceivers of modernized radars.
          The first samples will be delivered until October 2019.

          The switching time of power limiters developed by the Research Institute Ferrit-Domain (part of Roselectronics) will be up to 100 nanoseconds, which is comparable with the performance of solid-state limiters.
          At the same time, the average operating power of the new equipment will be higher than solid-state analogues - up to 10 watts.
          Power limiters with improved characteristics will increase the sensitivity and reliability of the receiving part of the radars and prevent the risk of burnout.

          The development, manufacture and delivery of products will be carried out in an extremely short time - 7 months.
          Usually, in the framework of development work, the implementation period for such a task is up to 2 years.

          The new equipment will allow radars to receive weaker signals and, therefore, work more efficiently.
          As part of this order, we were able to optimize the development and delivery of the product and reduce the time by more than 2 times.
          For civilian products, this is an extremely important factor for ensuring competitiveness in the market, said Georgy Medovnikov, Director General of Ferrit-Domain Research Institute.
          I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

          Comment

          • haavarla
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2008
            • 6715

            Originally posted by LMFS View Post

            Thanks!

            Wouldn't this depend on the ruble / dollar exchange and oil prices?
            yes for the Russian birds. Hense there are big variables here.
            Just for the finance crises back a short decade ago where the ruble crashed, it had huge impact on valuta value.

            But in the end it does not matter for VKS and Russia, they ONLY oprate in Ruble, so it gets misleading eighter way.
            Last edited by haavarla; 18th August 2019, 08:52.
            Thanks

            Comment

            • Austin
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Oct 2003
              • 6506

              Any reason why Su-30SM is not seen carrying R-77 only R-27 variant and R-73 , Which variant of R-27 does RuAF have atm and have these been modernised since the 80's with better electronics or Active variants ?

              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3741469.html
              "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

              Comment

              • stealthflanker
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2015
                • 1026

                Originally posted by Austin View Post
                Any reason why Su-30SM is not seen carrying R-77 only R-27 variant and R-73 , Which variant of R-27 does RuAF have atm and have these been modernised since the 80's with better electronics or Active variants ?

                https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3741469.html
                The only reason is because you were found one with R-27.

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                Comment

                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6506

                  Thanks , Has the R-27 being upgraded in any way compared to what was in the 80's ?

                  From this discussion on Indian Su-30MKI a senior Airforce officer Air Marshal Sinha says R-27 has range of 120 km and R-77 around 75-80 km

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPMDse1WpNI
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9826

                    Keep in mind he is talking about the old half (or even more) "Ukrainian" R-77, which was never even accepted for service by the VVS, nor bought in any serious numbers.

                    Every missile that is popping up on VKS planes today should be the R-77-1 (I keep forgetting if that is actually the real designation).

                    There is a debate on many Russian forums if the R-27s (like on the Belorussian Su-30s and other new VKS birds) are modernized significantly or not, personally I have not seen any conclusive evidence.
                    Last edited by TR1; 18th August 2019, 18:34.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • stealthflanker
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2015
                      • 1026

                      Originally posted by TR1 View Post
                      Keep in mind he is talking about the old half (or even more) "Ukrainian" R-77, which was never even accepted for service by the VVS, nor bought in any serious numbers.

                      Every missile that is popping up on VKS planes today should be the R-77-1 (I keep forgetting if that is actually the real designation).
                      and now since Artem is basically cutoff.. i assume any country bought R-77/RVV-AE should be getting R-77-1 instead ? Or does Vympel still have other manufacturing plant for it ?.

                      I found it rather interesting, despite some people claim the loss of Artem was significant as it does assemble the R-77/RVV-AE. Artem only offers R-27 family, no real mention of overhaul or even new built RVV-AE offered.

                      Comment

                      • a89
                        a89
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 376

                        There is a debate on many Russian forums if the R-27s (like on the Belorussian Su-30s and other new VKS birds) are modernized significantly or not, personally I have not seen any conclusive evidence.

                        Back in May it was anounced that VKS would receive modernised versions of R-27, but no details were provided.

                        https://iz.ru/882783/aleksei-kozache...mi-dlia-duelei

                        MiG-29 - 15000 $/hour for Russian air force 35000 $/hour for foreign customer
                        MiG-29SMT - 9000 $/hour
                        MiG-35 - 7500 $/hour
                        Su-27 - 20000 $/hour
                        Su-35S 11000 - 12000 $/hour
                        F-22 - 68362 $/hour
                        F-35 - 35200 $/hour
                        The increase for the MiG-29 for Russian Air Force vs foreign customer is surprising. I assume it has to do with the overhauls and so on. I would not compare Russian data to US (or any other) as it is not clear what is included.

                        Thanks for the link with the book by the way.
                        History and Military Technology blog

                        alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6506

                          Russias Aircraft Industry In Crisis

                          https://aviationweek.com/defense/rus...ndustry-crisis
                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                          Comment

                          • Austin
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 6506

                            Originally posted by Austin View Post
                            Russias Aircraft Industry In Crisis

                            https://aviationweek.com/defense/rus...ndustry-crisis
                            The PAK DA is claimed to be a subsonic flying-wing aircraft with a range of 15,000 km (9,321 mi.) without refueling.

                            The PAK DP (or Future Air Complex of Long-range Interception) is intended to replace the MiG-31 after 2030.

                            The LMFS or Lightweight Multifunction Tactical Aircraft, is to be a successor to the MiG-29. The SVTS, or Medium Military Transport Aircraft, is to be a new 20-ton payload military transport aircraft, followed by the 80-plus-ton-payload PAK VTA, or Future Air Complex of Military Transport Aviation. A new aircraft carrier and dedicated carrier-based fighter have been announced as well as a next-generation combat helicopter.
                            I wonder why they need a LMFS to replace Mig-29 , Cant they replace it with the 25 T single engine Hunter UCAV ?

                            BTW do we have any official information on Hunter Weight class is it at 20 or 25 T ?
                            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                            Comment

                            • panzerfeist1
                              Rank 6 Registered User
                              • Feb 2018
                              • 413

                              http://airrecognition.com/index.php
                              /archive-world-worldwide-news-air-f
                              orce-aviation-aerospace-air-militar
                              y-defence-industry/global-defense-s
                              ecurity-news/2019-news-aerospace-in
                              dustry-air-force/august/5335-mig-41
                              -project-to-be-completed-in-2019.ht
                              ml
                              I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                              Comment

                              • paralay
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 1418

                                Originally posted by Austin View Post
                                BTW do we have any official information on Hunter Weight class is it at 20 or 25 T ?
                                side view of 18.98 m2 top view 120 m2 (round nozzle) 122 m2 (flat) front view 11.38 m2 volume 59.2 m3 maximum take-off weight of ~24,000 kg

                                Comment

                                • LMFS
                                  Rank 4 Registered User
                                  • Feb 2018
                                  • 561

                                  Originally posted by Austin View Post
                                  Russias Aircraft Industry In Crisis

                                  Well, they have been in crisis since the 90's, it is now that they are setting the basis to leave that behind. Apart from that, the claim sounds hollow like so many others, related to the imminent fall of Russia that we hear for decades now.

                                  Apart from the programs you mention, they had some others ongoing or planned related to VMF aircraft, like patrol, new helicopters, AWACS and so on.

                                  I wonder why they need a LMFS to replace Mig-29 , Cant they replace it with the 25 T single engine Hunter UCAV ?
                                  The Okhotnik couldn't be more different from a fighter like the MiG-29, which was designed with point defence in mind and excelled in TWR and maneuverability. IMO it is clearly a platform for tactical strike and ISR, not an AD asset.

                                  Having said that, I have heard nothing about LMFS as of late and I have my personal doubts it even makes sense as of now. Rather as I suggested in the past, an aircraft that would be optionally manned and would have a light fighter layout, with great agility and capability to support the Su-57 in the air-to-air role, similar to loyal wingman concept. The great advantage with this concept is that it would allow to increase fleet numbers at great speed and sustain the attrition of a high level conflict because the training and availability of pilots would not be an issue any more. Simplified layout and lack of need of training would reduce procurement and operational costs very significantly, too. And besides, two additional big advantages would be gained for the Russian industry and military:
                                  - Possibility to sell abroad both the unmanned and a manned version as light export fighter in big numbers
                                  - Possibility to create a STOVL design based on it, with the lifting fan in the place of the cockpit and hence without the intrinsic downsides of designs known to date for range and payload.

                                  Comment

                                  • panzerfeist1
                                    Rank 6 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2018
                                    • 413

                                    damn 24,000kg ? I thought the max weight was going to be around 20,000kg the same like x-47b or phantom ray drone. I am curious as to what calculations you used? After it gets to test its avionics and weapons this will be a good sign to determine the feasibility of future program AI controlled aircrafts for the Russians.
                                    I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                                    Comment

                                    • paralay
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2005
                                      • 1418

                                      Volume X-47B - 49.5 m3. Take-off weight of 20215 kg. the density of the arrangement 20215 kg : 49.5 m3 = 408 kg/m3 Volume S-70 - 59.2 m3 * 408 kg/m3 = 24176 kg

                                      Attached Files
                                      Last edited by paralay; 19th August 2019, 17:54.

                                      Comment

                                      • TR1
                                        TR1
                                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                        • Oct 2010
                                        • 9826

                                        https://www.defensenews.com/industry...cal-suppliers/

                                        "Another HAL executive said a formal request has been sent to the Indian Air Force and the Ministry for Defence that they place an additional order for 72 locally made Su-30MKI fighters for about $5 billion, but the government has not yet made a decision.
                                        A senior Air Force official said the service could only order 18 fighters as a response to the number of Su-30MKI jets lost in accidents over the last two decades."

                                        Each HAL-built Su-30MKI fighter costs around $70.3 million, where as a Russia-supplied fighter costs around $42.15 million, the senior Air Force official said.

                                        "The HAL built Su-30MKI fighter is not fully indigenized, only 51 percent is homemade, where the remaining 49 percent of supplies still comes from Russia, said Bhim Sigh, a retired wing commander with the Indian Air Force.Singh noted that most of the raw materials are sourced from Russia, including titanium blocks, forgings, aluminium and steel plates, as well as low-tech items such as nuts, bolts and screws."
                                        sigpic

                                        Comment

                                        • stealthflanker
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2015
                                          • 1026

                                          hmm why USD 30 M of difference O-o. Hmm and considering the raw materials are still sourced from Russia i guess 51% local content is not that all satisfying.

                                          Comment

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