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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Grizzly01
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2005
    • 138

    Originally posted by Deino View Post

    Yes I know, but how likely is it that the PAK-DA will be shown? Therefore my point, he might have mixed it with the Okhotnik.

    at least we know there is an Okhotnik prototype, but from all we heard so far, the PAK-DA prototype was never said to be unveiled this year ... overall I have some strong reservation on this site's reliability.
    Deino, my question is not related to UAVs, but do you know if PLAAF is going to do any BFM exercises against VVS aircraft during Aviadarts circus?

    Comment

    • Deino
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 4225

      Sorry, BFM means??

      And yes I know they are right now at Aviadarts, mostly 8th Brigade J-10A and some Y-9 and Il-76MD but I must admit due to some family issues I had not the time to follow as usual.
      ...

      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
      My working week and my Sunday rest,
      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
      -------------------------------------------------
      W.H.Auden (1945)

      Comment

      • haavarla
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2008
        • 6696

        Originally posted by Deino View Post
        Sorry, BFM means??

        And yes I know they are right now at Aviadarts, mostly 8th Brigade J-10A and some Y-9 and Il-76MD but I must admit due to some family issues I had not the time to follow as usual.
        It means Basic Fighter Manuveres Deino.
        Avidarts is all about Attack training/competition i think,.. could be wrong.
        Last edited by haavarla; 6th August 2019, 09:03.
        Thanks

        Comment

        • Deino
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2000
          • 4225

          Originally posted by haavarla View Post

          It means Basic Fighter Manuveres Deino.
          Avidarts is all about Attack training/competition i think,.. could be wrong.
          Thanks for the explanation ... and I must admit, I don't know.

          ...

          He was my North, my South, my East and West,
          My working week and my Sunday rest,
          My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
          I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

          The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
          Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
          Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
          For nothing now can ever come to any good.
          -------------------------------------------------
          W.H.Auden (1945)

          Comment

          • Bellum
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jul 2010
            • 118

            Russian MoD published a video of Okhotnik's maiden flight.

            Comment

            • Dr.Snufflebug
              Boggleboople snufflebug
              • Aug 2012
              • 527

              Originally posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post
              I think this is a bit closer, but I messed up with the colors so there is some serious banding going on. Oh well, can't wait to see some official shots of it from above/below...


              Blast from the past... I did actually get pretty close, then. Except those pitot tubes were funkier than I thought, and that APU exhaust is positively huge.


              sigpic

              Comment

              • Deino
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2000
                • 4225

                Again congratulations !

                Click image for larger version

Name:	Sukhoi S-70 Okhotnik UCAV maiden flight video.jpg
Views:	1558
Size:	465.9 KB
ID:	3870189
                ...

                He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                My working week and my Sunday rest,
                My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                -------------------------------------------------
                W.H.Auden (1945)

                Comment

                • blackwood
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 314

                  Its amazing how some sites are saying its not fully stealth because of the nozzle and air inlets etc.
                  All i can say is that its as stealthy or more then a F-35.
                  So basically those critics are saying the F-35 is not stealthy enough. The nozzle can be made into the next gen nozzle later or engine etc. The inlets are above the plane and probably made from stealth materials with back scater design. If its rcs is as good or better then a F-35 then its achieved what it has to. If they can produce them in hundreds it takes away the advantage that large numbers of F-35 have.

                  Comment

                  • djcross
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 5456

                    There is a lot of misunderstanding of how flight test programs work. An airplane's design is verified in stages.

                    A first-of-type flight test airplane is not intended to be stealthy. The first test jet is used to demonstrate flying qualities and propulsion performance and carries a lot of unique instrumentation. The first jet will have no LO materials, mission systems or weapons systems. Until the first jet proves it can be flown safely, no other jets of that type will be flown. Several other test jets will be used to validate LO, mission systems and weapons. The numerous antennas and air scoops evident on the first jet indicate readily-available substitute equipment is presently installed. As the design is validated over the series of hundreds of test flights, the substitute equipment will be gradually replaced by final kit as it gets closer to the time when it is approved for production.

                    Comment

                    • XB-70
                      Rank 4 Registered User
                      • May 2018
                      • 350

                      blackwood - The reveal picture of the static test frame published last year shows the final design. It has what is sometimes called a platypus type exhaust. These types of exhaust nozzles have shown themselves to be a maintenance headache in US designs. So they started flight tests of the drone without it (because they don't need it for that - as djcross pointed out) while they do materials research to try to avoid that outcome.

                      It will be interesting to see how quickly this project develops. I'm guessing its service date is more than 5 years out, but we'll see.

                      Comment

                      • panzerfeist1
                        Rank 6 Registered User
                        • Feb 2018
                        • 399

                        su-57 First flyable prototype; first flight on 29 January 2010. In 2012, became the first prototype to be equipped with AESA radar, first tested in flight on 8 August 2012.

                        I know they have been test flying different prototypes with the SU-57s but is it a fair estimate that it will take 2.5 years until they go test the radar? Or will it be less than that because the focus is just on one drone instead of 1 su-57 prototype will be tested for flight and the 3rd prototype coming out will be tested for radar?

                        The Maks 2009 airshow showed the prototype radar of the su-57 and the side x-band radars were shown in the maks 2013 airshow. So I am estimating that atleast in this upcoming airshow they might show the radar and we can only pray that they would show the full set of avionics as well. But at least its safe to assume this drone will use the S-111 datalink. I hope we get a news source later either saying we will conduct multiple flight tests or test the radar/avionics in this given time frame like they recently did with its hops and flight tests.
                        I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                        Comment

                        • wilhelm
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2004
                          • 1658

                          Originally posted by blackwood View Post
                          Its amazing how some sites are saying its not fully stealth because of the nozzle and air inlets etc.
                          All i can say is that its as stealthy or more then a F-35.
                          So basically those critics are saying the F-35 is not stealthy enough. The nozzle can be made into the next gen nozzle later or engine etc. The inlets are above the plane and probably made from stealth materials with back scater design. If its rcs is as good or better then a F-35 then its achieved what it has to. If they can produce them in hundreds it takes away the advantage that large numbers of F-35 have.
                          My suggestion is to stop reading those sites.
                          They offer basically nothing of value... nothing beyond that which a teenaged armchair analyst could do.
                          Djcross has summarised it neatly...it's a prototype to be used for flight validation initially.

                          Comment

                          • Austin
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 6477

                            Interview with IAF Mig 29 pilot

                            https://hushkit.net/2019/08/12/flyin...mpression=true
                            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                            Comment

                            • BlackArcher
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 4288

                              beat me to it Austin. Air Marshal Harish Masand's praise of the MiG-29 is truly fulsome. I also know from interaction with some IAF people in the past, that the MiG-29 truly was considered a fabulous jet aerodynamically, but it fell short on the way the information was presented to the pilot and the resulting situational awareness. Something that was a result of the Soviet GCI based piloting philosophy. And those were the key factors that the SMT and UPG upgrades addressed- the high pilot workload and the poor SA and of course the lower internal fuel volume.

                              I wish someone would give us an insight into how much improvement the SMT or UPG versions have over the older MiG-29A or the MiG-29M that lacked the improved cockpit avionics and radar and increased onboard fuel, but probably had lower empty weights and consequently slightly better T/W ratio.

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6477

                                From what I read the first 40's bought in 80's were the first export model of Mig-29A exported to any country , India was the first one to have it.

                                The 20 purchased in mid 90's where modified variant with ability to fire R-77 which were consequently upgraded to earlier variant ....... The oldest cockpit I saw has a single CRT display on the right side.

                                Then came the Mig-29M in early 2000's with 4 HP carrying R-77 on each wing , 2 LCD cockpit display HOTAS and ability to fire some type of A2G variant Kh-31 etc , Then came the M2 , then K for IN and finally Mig-35.

                                The internal fuel was doubled compared to earlier 29A variant , Introduction of low smoke RD-33 series 3 etc was progressively added. Also was added dorsal drop tank as seen on Mig-29UPG.

                                The first 29A focussed on point defence AD and hence had the best TW ratio , The later model from 29M was more multirole capability higher internal fuel etc , I think the RD-33 engine received thrust upgrade too and life was extended.

                                All said and done the latest statement from Deputy RuAF chief states Mig-35 Operating cost is 1.5 times lower than modern Sukhoi family
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • Austin
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2003
                                  • 6477

                                  http://redstar.ru/podyomnaya-sila-krylev-rossii/

                                  Seems from RuAF Deputy chief statement PAK-FA has supercruise capability with current engine

                                  - You have already mentioned in our conversation the aircraft of generation 4 ++ MiG-35 and 5th generation Su-57, which are now being tested. Tell us what opportunities do they have? How are the tests and when can they be expected in the army?

                                  - The main difference between the MiG-35 and the multifunctional aircraft of the 4 ++ Su-30SM and Su-35S generations already in service is efficiency. The cost of its flight hour is about one and a half times lower than that of modern aircraft of the Sukhoi family.

                                  The Su-57 is distinguished by multifunctionality, super maneuverability, a mode of long supersonic cruising flight, maximum automation of aircraft control processes and the use of weapons. In its capabilities, it surpasses the 5th generation aircraft of foreign air forces.

                                  It is planned to complete state tests of the MiG-35 at the end of 2021, and the Su-57 this year. Upon completion, serial purchases are provided. I want to remind you: according to the results of the meetings in Sochi, the Supreme Commander was tasked with re-equipping three regiments on Su-57 aircraft.
                                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                  Comment

                                  • Scorpion82
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2005
                                    • 4480

                                    Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                                    beat me to it Austin. Air Marshal Harish Masand's praise of the MiG-29 is truly fulsome. I also know from interaction with some IAF people in the past, that the MiG-29 truly was considered a fabulous jet aerodynamically, but it fell short on the way the information was presented to the pilot and the resulting situational awareness. Something that was a result of the Soviet GCI based piloting philosophy. And those were the key factors that the SMT and UPG upgrades addressed- the high pilot workload and the poor SA and of course the lower internal fuel volume.

                                    I wish someone would give us an insight into how much improvement the SMT or UPG versions have over the older MiG-29A or the MiG-29M that lacked the improved cockpit avionics and radar and increased onboard fuel, but probably had lower empty weights and consequently slightly better T/W ratio.
                                    The original MiG-29M (9.15) had everything you vlaim it didn't have and its first flight was on 25th April 1986. It formed the baseline for the original MiG-29K (9.31). The M2 was the twinseat version of the improved M. The prototype was actually converted from thw 4th of 6 original MiG-29M prototypes. The Indian contract let to the development of the new MiG-29K (9.41) and its twinseat version MiG-29KUB (9.47). The ultimate MiG-29M/M2 were based on these, as are the MiG-35/MiG-35D.

                                    Comment

                                    • BlackArcher
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2010
                                      • 4288

                                      Thanks for the correction Scorpion82. I wasn't aware that the MiG-29M had improved radar and avionics. Upon reading up, I stand corrected. Zhuk-ME radar and MFDs. Plus, the FBW that addressed the issue of the pilot having to manually make sure that the G-limits were not exceeded. Would've surely made the Fulcrum even easier to fly even for inexperienced pilots.

                                      How much internal fuel did the MiG-29M carry as opposed to the original MiG-29A or the SMT?

                                      Comment

                                      • a89
                                        a89
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2011
                                        • 374


                                        How much internal fuel did the MiG-29M carry as opposed to the original MiG-29A or the SMT?
                                        Far more, original MiG-29A did not meet range requirements. Hence the hunchback C version (9.13). MiG made substantial changes in MiG-29M and internal fuel capacity increased by 30%.



                                        http://alejandro-8en.blogspot.com/20...VHQ31n54p4fM5V

                                        This comment by IAF MiG-29 pilot is worth pointing out:

                                        How good were the sensors?
                                        Excellent. The combination of the powerful Pulse-Doppler radar, IRST and helmet mounted sight with the weapons slewed to the sensors was wonderful and unique since it did not exist on any other comparable aircraft those days.
                                        This factor was also pointed out by Yugoslavian pilotos who evaluated MiG-29, F-16 and Mirage 2000.
                                        History and Military Technology blog

                                        alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

                                        Comment

                                        • stealthflanker
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2015
                                          • 1016

                                          Originally posted by BlackArcher View Post
                                          Thanks for the correction Scorpion82. I wasn't aware that the MiG-29M had improved radar and avionics. Upon reading up, I stand corrected. Zhuk-ME radar and MFDs. Plus, the FBW that addressed the issue of the pilot having to manually make sure that the G-limits were not exceeded. Would've surely made the Fulcrum even easier to fly even for inexperienced pilots.

                                          How much internal fuel did the MiG-29M carry as opposed to the original MiG-29A or the SMT?
                                          Quite an improvement i see.

                                          The MiG-29A izd 9.12 can carry about 3600 Kg of fuel internally.
                                          The MiG-29M izd 9.15 which flew in 1986 is able to carry 4460 Kg of internal fuel.
                                          The SMT since there are multiple variants which designated as SMT from barebone SMT which basically a MiG-29A with Zhuk radar to Egyptian 2 seaters (Which was at some point designated as "SMT-2") The fuel load varies. The latest one however which Egyptian flies (Which now designated as the M2) can carry about 5200 Kg of internal fuel.

                                          Comment

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