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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • stealthflanker
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2015
    • 1026

    Originally posted by blackwood View Post

    The indians would be wise to get those planes up to super flanker standard, asea radar, new engines, new electronics, radar absorbing materials, new missiles. Get it up to su-35 standard with some su-57 measures. Its is a good plane, but 90s-2000s architecture. Or go all the way with the su-57. That argument again.

    I would love to see the AESA upgrade package. The thing is that NIIP Seems to still pre-occupied bringing one for Su-57. Little to no attention seems to be given for the older variant.

    Comment

    • panzerfeist1
      Rank 6 Registered User
      • Feb 2018
      • 413

      https://www.therussophile.org/russia...c-bomber.html/ Well it looks like I will be waiting with a hard-on until the Maks airshow comes up.
      I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

      Comment

      • Deino
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 4228

        Originally posted by panzerfeist1 View Post
        https://www.therussophile.org/russia...c-bomber.html/ Well it looks like I will be waiting with a hard-on until the Maks airshow comes up.

        could it be that in all his enthusiasm he mixed the future PAK-DA with the Okhotnik UCAV?

        otherwise he smoked probably too much of similar herbs like certain other members here.
        ...

        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
        My working week and my Sunday rest,
        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
        -------------------------------------------------
        W.H.Auden (1945)

        Comment

        • panzerfeist1
          Rank 6 Registered User
          • Feb 2018
          • 413

          Deino

          It does say PAK-DA Scooter#2
          I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

          Comment

          • Deino
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 4228

            Originally posted by panzerfeist1 View Post
            Deino

            It does say PAK-DA Scooter#2
            Yes I know, but how likely is it that the PAK-DA will be shown? Therefore my point, he might have mixed it with the Okhotnik.

            at least we know there is an Okhotnik prototype, but from all we heard so far, the PAK-DA prototype was never said to be unveiled this year ... overall I have some strong reservation on this site's reliability.
            ...

            He was my North, my South, my East and West,
            My working week and my Sunday rest,
            My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
            I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

            The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
            Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
            Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
            For nothing now can ever come to any good.
            -------------------------------------------------
            W.H.Auden (1945)

            Comment

            • panzerfeist1
              Rank 6 Registered User
              • Feb 2018
              • 413


              Deino

              "he might have mixed it with the Okhotnik"

              Who are you referring to?
              https://tass.com/defense/1071613 Sorry for not posting it from tass earlier instead of the other site.

              Head of the Defense and Security Committee in the upper house of Russias parliament Viktor Bondarev earlier said that the R&D work on the PAK DA multirole aircraft designed to replace Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS and later Tu-160 bombers was nearing completion.

              The deliveries of the long-range strategic bomber PAK DA to Russias Aerospace Force are expected to begin in 2025-2030 after trials. In January, Tupolev CEO Konyukhov said that the timeframe of creating the PAK DA is comparable with the term of creating the Tu-144 supersonic passenger plane and would equal about five-seven years.

              Then-Deputy Defense Minister and currently Deputy Prime Minister Yuri Borisov said at the time that the new strategic bomber might take to the skies in 2025-2026 and go into series production in 2028 or 2029.

              Are you talking about Konyukhov, Bondarev or Borisov mixing it up with the okhotnik? If anyone has noticed this by now I never care about production numbers of aircrafts the only thing that interests me is the technology it carries. Also I want Tupolev to atleast make a new aircraft.
              I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

              Comment

              • blackwood
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2011
                • 314

                To me it sounds like component testing. Cockpit, electronics integration, i dont think they have a full scale prototype even ready. Possibly 2022 to 2023 a static prototype. Flying model in 2025 to 2026. I dont think even a model will be shown. Way to early. But good surprises are always nice. We wait for the first flight of the Okhtonik, which is around in these months. That will be a major achievement, first fighter size craft since Su-57 took to skies in 2010.

                Comment

                • stealthflanker
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 1026

                  Ending of R/D work doesnt mean the plane will fly right away. A real design program starts like this :

                  Conceptual-Preliminary-Detail-Prototype assembly then you can move to various in-ground test and fly the plane. The "R/D" part is in the Conceptual and Preliminary stage. We might not even see iron bird (It is a ground based testing rig where all electronics, hydraulics etc are tested for functionality) in this stage but rather computer models or mock-ups in various sizes. 2025-2030 seems more realistic as first prototype roll out and flight test instead of delivery.

                  Comment

                  • Marcellogo
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 1840

                    S-70 Okhotnik has performed its first flight today.

                    https://tass.com/defense/1071784

                    Comment

                    • Deino
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 4228

                      Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post
                      S-70 Okhotnik has performed its first flight today.

                      https://tass.com/defense/1071784


                      congratulations
                      ...

                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                      Comment

                      • J-20
                        Rank 4 Registered User
                        • Jan 2018
                        • 256

                        Originally posted by Deino View Post



                        congratulations
                        cool beans. Def need to export to PLAAF!

                        Comment

                        • Deino
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2000
                          • 4228

                          Originally posted by J-20 View Post

                          cool beans. Def need to export to PLAAF!


                          Why? They have their own smaller Dark Sword ... and it is flying since years. IMO drones are something, where Russia is surely - at least operationally ahead.

                          nur surely you won't agree.
                          ...

                          He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                          My working week and my Sunday rest,
                          My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                          I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                          The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                          Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                          Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                          For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                          -------------------------------------------------
                          W.H.Auden (1945)

                          Comment

                          • J-20
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • Jan 2018
                            • 256

                            Originally posted by Deino View Post



                            Why? They have their own smaller Dark Sword ... and it is flying since years. IMO drones are something, where Russia is surely - at least operationally ahead.

                            nur surely you won't agree.
                            nur sultan?


                            anyways as you know Dark Sword seems to fill a different class and design than our sexy Russian counter part
                            its like a J-20 and J-31. just looking at the size, wing lay out, overall shape. they probably could go together, not against.
                            your China can surely export Dark Sword to Russia as well!

                            Comment

                            • XB-70
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • May 2018
                              • 364

                              IMO drones are something, where Russia is surely - at least operationally ahead.
                              Keep in mind that, although China hasn't used its drones in combat, many customers of Chinese drones have. And I'm sure China has had opportunities to learn from those events. I don't think China is lacking in know-how.

                              As to Okhotnik, it is going to be a long time before it is operational.

                              Comment

                              • panzerfeist1
                                Rank 6 Registered User
                                • Feb 2018
                                • 413

                                Looking at the X-47B and Okhotnik. Is there any other country that is developing or has flown a 20 ton drone besides the US and Russia? I have heard how poor they were before like some people saying they bought drones from Israel. But I certainly cant say they suck at land or underwater drones.
                                I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                                Comment

                                • Deino
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 4228

                                  Originally posted by panzerfeist1 View Post
                                  Looking at the X-47B and Okhotnik. Is there any other country that is developing or has flown a 20 ton drone besides the US and Russia? I have heard how poor they were before like some people saying they bought drones from Israel. But I certainly cant say they suck at land or underwater drones.
                                  To admit, again I find it funny that you once again omit the Chinese, which have operational drones in service since years (including the large Soaring Dragon), which have several more and different drones in test ranging from small Reaper-like UCAVs, over the - yes surely - smaller Dark Sword to huge sensor-craft sized types like the Divine Eagle... and you limit your list to USA and Russia.

                                  By the way, which Russian designed drones is Russia currently using, and how long will it last until the Okhotnik is mature to be operational?

                                  Again I do not want to hype the Chinese but after the first maiden flight of an indeed impressive type I think it is a bit too early to open the bottles of Champagne.

                                  ...

                                  He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                                  My working week and my Sunday rest,
                                  My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                                  I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                                  The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                                  Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                                  Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                                  For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                                  -------------------------------------------------
                                  W.H.Auden (1945)

                                  Comment

                                  • panzerfeist1
                                    Rank 6 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2018
                                    • 413

                                    Deino

                                    I checked the wing size of the sharp sword drone a drone they flew. Although I cant determine the weight of it but I do know according to the wing span and size the okhotnik and X-47B are way more bigger than whatever drone the Chinese have flew. I mean are there any sources that the Divine Eagle flew if so is its purpose not just recon but using weapons as well?


                                    "By the way, which Russian designed drones is Russia currently using, and how long will it last until the Okhotnik is mature to be operational?"

                                    Well as of now there is no operational 20 ton drone using weapons that I can find on the web. X-47B is cancelled but I am assuming the phantom ray drone and Okhotnik are the only actual 20 ton drones in development. However if okhotnik does become the 1st declared operational 20 ton drone while no country (for example china) has an operational heavier drone that can use weapons I have a better chance believing the Russians will have a unmanned mig-41 operational before the Chinese have the dark sword drone operational.

                                    Not to offend you but if this forum had a survey I am sure the most jingoistic user from F-16.net would believe the Russians will have a photonic airborne radar, photonic radar satellite and mig-41 before the Chinese will have a quantum airborne radar, laser satellite and dark sword drone. There are a lot of Chinese users on this forum and social media sites that have owned my ass plenty of times with a lot of knowledge on aviation but I am sure that even they see some of Chinas projects as memes than they do as something coming close to reality or the proper term for this over-exaggeration.
                                    I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                                    Comment

                                    • Deino
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2000
                                      • 4228

                                      Originally posted by panzerfeist1 View Post
                                      Deino

                                      I checked the wing size of the sharp sword drone a drone they flew. Although I cant determine the weight of it but I do know according to the wing span and size the okhotnik and X-47B are way more bigger than whatever drone the Chinese have flew. I mean are there any sources that the Divine Eagle flew if so is its purpose not just recon but using weapons as well?


                                      "By the way, which Russian designed drones is Russia currently using, and how long will it last until the Okhotnik is mature to be operational?"

                                      Well as of now there is no operational 20 ton drone using weapons that I can find on the web. X-47B is cancelled but I am assuming the phantom ray drone and Okhotnik are the only actual 20 ton drones in development. However if okhotnik does become the 1st declared operational 20 ton drone while no country (for example china) has an operational heavier drone that can use weapons I have a better chance believing the Russians will have a unmanned mig-41 operational before the Chinese have the dark sword drone operational.

                                      Not to offend you but if this forum had a survey I am sure the most jingoistic user from F-16.net would believe the Russians will have a photonic airborne radar, photonic radar satellite and mig-41 before the Chinese will have a quantum airborne radar, laser satellite and dark sword drone. There are a lot of Chinese users on this forum and social media sites that have owned my ass plenty of times with a lot of knowledge on aviation but I am sure that even they see some of Chinas projects as memes than they do as something coming close to reality or the proper term for this over-exaggeration.

                                      Don't get me wrong and I do not want to portray the image China is ahead or even better than Russia, but I sometimes - ok, always ! - have the feeling, that besides the USA and Russia no-one takes the Chinese seriously, especially from Russia.

                                      Not sure where this attitude comes from and again I don't want to say they are ahead, which they are surely not in all aspects, but they are catching up very fast, they have the will and especially budget to do, something I don't see in Russia.

                                      I even must admit, when I last spoke with Piotr Butowski about the future prospects of the Russian Aviation Industries, it was quite sad ...

                                      Anyway, I#m interested in all flying THINGs but I hate this constant overhyping of certain systems - and especially Russian ones from certain members only since they are designed on CAD, only since they have new materials or HUGE pods, BIGGER engines and so on ... that all does not count especially since others do the same, they only do it differently.

                                      Best,
                                      Deino
                                      ...

                                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                                      -------------------------------------------------
                                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                                      Comment

                                      • Marcellogo
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2014
                                        • 1840

                                        Surely the fact that program S-70 has reached a fundamental point like the first flight is a good news for any military aviation aficionado.

                                        The fact that the US UCLASS program passed from a truly UCAV to an ISR platform and ended up like a fuel tanker should instead be a warning for not get too much into a running competition to get it first than the others.
                                        Problem of all the unmanned vehicles is not just the platform but the software, the sensor and the situational awareness you will get from it.
                                        Or if I can use another wording it is not about getting it first but about getting it right i.e. with an A.I. able to manage autonomously the larger part of the mission, affordable, flexible and reliable enough to allow its use as a mass produced strike plane and not, as actually still happen, as a niche asset for COIN (or looking to some middle-east models even Pro-IN ) missions, seriously limited by bandwidth consumption.

                                        Needless to say, russian modus operandi for what it comes to design and development processes, although complex and time consuming , fit almost perfectly to this sort of cross-country race.

                                        Comment

                                        • JSR
                                          JSR
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2011
                                          • 4982

                                          Originally posted by Deino View Post


                                          Don't get me wrong and I do not want to portray the image China is ahead or even better than Russia, but I sometimes - ok, always ! - have the feeling, that besides the USA and Russia no-one takes the Chinese seriously, especially from Russia.

                                          Not sure where this attitude comes from and again I don't want to say they are ahead, which they are surely not in all aspects, but they are catching up very fast, they have the will and especially budget to do, something I don't see in Russia.

                                          I even must admit, when I last spoke with Piotr Butowski about the future prospects of the Russian Aviation Industries, it was quite sad ...
                                          you basically making assumption based speaking to those who does not know. you should only be concerned with how to fund French space force. Russia is too advanced and complex.
                                          Chinese selling those plastic toys in Middleast/Africa will invite backlash from those who it needs especially for aviation technology. let see how far Chinese budget goes.
                                          that's why Russia simply not first concentrate on things that are merely for export or even export things beyond certain limit at this point.

                                          https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplo...gainst-chinese French President Emmanuel Macron vows to stand against Chinese hegemony in Asia-Pacific during trip to Australia

                                          https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...n-space-force/
                                          BERLIN Emmanuel Macron's race into space makes Germans nervous.



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