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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • JSR
    JSR
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2011
    • 4976

    Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post

    You anticipated me Paralay, I also have saved the article but just in case a discussion on defence spending would resurface again.

    So, i'll keep it the same, foor future uses.
    I would just add a thing, same I have posted in comment section.

    Money for military spending in Russian case doesn't come, like in the west from citizen's and private enterprises revenues but in great part from the export of oil, gas, minerals and timber i.e. from big, centralized and state owned firms.
    They pass this money to other big, centralized and state owned firms, for acquiring high technology items at a reduced prize, while creating or maintaining workplaces in the process.
    Opposition to military spending is so almost non-existent in Russia and what is generally considered a weakness in macroeconomic terms is instead an excellent thing when it come to keeping an high level of defence spending.
    Russia does not spend that much compared to real size of its economy. it still has lowest spending what it does better is effecient R&D and full cycle industrial development with minimum labor.
    in Civilain setup so competent people. imagine in military setup.
    http://www.arabnews.com/node/1402171/business-economy

    Comment

    • a89
      a89
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2011
      • 373

      Hmm Looks interesting. However the competition for export would be tough as the "medium" AEW market is atm quite saturated with Western and Chinese products. Mainly Western like Wedgetail and SAAB. Chinese also manages to secure some niche with the ZDK-03. Would be nice alternative anyway in case the customer cant by any means accessing western products but dont want Chinese.
      Using the Tu-214 as a platform makes sense because it is the long range version. Having said that production in the last few years has been very small, and is likely that the aircraft were built from stored components. In any case it will provide some extra work for Kazan's KAPO factory. There are also a few in storage.
      History and Military Technology blog

      alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

      Comment

      • military noob
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Mar 2017
        • 11

        Hello chaps!
        https://www.instagram.com/p/BrW3Fg3H...=1vt94x8gp6bpb
        have a look at this , i dont know if this has been posted before , but you can see a Su-34 taking a high resolution shot of the su-35 at 20 km then later at 40 km with no visible loss in resolution. Too bad the limit of the rangefinder seems to be at 40km.
        Thermal image cameras gradually lose resolution at longer ranges , so i am fairly certain the Su-34s image system can still recognize the shape of a fighter at much longer distances than 40 km but at lower resolution. Considering its crystal clear at 40km.

        Ps: it may be weird to see an old system like platan perform like this , but i did hear about modernization plans for the su-34 earlier on , and that they aimed for the electronics complex. So it could be that the EO equipment got updated.
        have a nice day.

        Comment

        • ijozic
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2014
          • 613

          Originally posted by military noob View Post
          have a look at this , i dont know if this has been posted before , but you can see a Su-34 taking a high resolution shot of the su-35 at 20 km then later at 40 km with no visible loss in resolution.
          20 and 40 km? Funny.

          Comment

          • military noob
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Mar 2017
            • 11

            Originally posted by ijozic View Post

            20 and 40 km? Funny.

            yes the panel displays the range information.
            Click image for larger version

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            Comment

            • panzerfeist1
              Rank 6 Registered User
              • Feb 2018
              • 394


              military noob
              are you sure thats not mixing up infrared with radar resolution. The side radar s pika-m give a resolution of 1-1.5 meters mapping mode at 300km and 30cm at observation mode for the su-34

              I believe its radars are better than eots
              Last edited by panzerfeist1; 9th May 2019, 21:40.
              I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

              Comment

              • military noob
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Mar 2017
                • 11

                Originally posted by panzerfeist1 View Post
                military noob
                are you sure thats not mixing up infrared with radar resolution. The side radar s pika-m give a resolution of 1-1.5 meters mapping mode at 300km and 30cm at observation mode for the su-34

                I believe its radars are better than eots

                Its the EO system in the video. The poster of the video said it in the description :
                Работа лазерно-телевизионной системы наведения Су-34 в режиме автоматического сопровождения воздушной цели. В качестве воздушной цели у нас сегодня синегрудый Су-35.

                translation
                The operation of the Su-34 laser-television guidance system in the automatic tracking mode of an aerial target. As an air target, today we have a blue-breasted Su-35.

                it interests me by the way how its the picture of the whole airplane , in a sense that the IR image is made from not only the heat emitted by the nozzles but also the friction heating of the airplane. A supercruising airplane will have a hotter body.
                Last edited by military noob; 9th May 2019, 21:57.

                Comment

                • djcross
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 5456

                  The details of the IR image shows the optics and focal plane array are optimized for mid-wave (3-5 microns).

                  Comment

                  • stealthflanker
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2015
                    • 1013

                    Is that really IR ? instead of Monochrome TV.

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                    Comment

                    • military noob
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Mar 2017
                      • 11

                      I have a feeling its infrared , because when they talk about their optics they say heat finder channel and imager channel , but if its really monochrome Tv then thats even better , since that means this range of 40km+ is achieved in a shorter wave , less optimal for range , band.
                      Gets me thinking what would a modern LWIR image system on a newer platform do, against a mach 1.7 airframe.

                      Comment

                      • Scorpion82
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 4480

                        Originally posted by military noob View Post
                        Hello chaps!
                        https://www.instagram.com/p/BrW3Fg3H...=1vt94x8gp6bpb
                        have a look at this , i dont know if this has been posted before , but you can see a Su-34 taking a high resolution shot of the su-35 at 20 km then later at 40 km with no visible loss in resolution. Too bad the limit of the rangefinder seems to be at 40km.
                        Thermal image cameras gradually lose resolution at longer ranges , so i am fairly certain the Su-34s image system can still recognize the shape of a fighter at much longer distances than 40 km but at lower resolution. Considering its crystal clear at 40km.

                        Ps: it may be weird to see an old system like platan perform like this , but i did hear about modernization plans for the su-34 earlier on , and that they aimed for the electronics complex. So it could be that the EO equipment got updated.
                        have a nice day.
                        That scale is not a range scale, considering how quick the marker changes its position and correlating the target aircraft's movement it looks like an elevation scale. A range scale it's not.

                        Comment

                        • military noob
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Mar 2017
                          • 11

                          Originally posted by Scorpion82 View Post

                          That scale is not a range scale, considering how quick the marker changes its position and correlating the target aircraft's movement it looks like an elevation scale. A range scale it's not.


                          Sorry but i have to disagree with you on this one. I think that we can not deny that its range information judging by the fact that the cursor changes relatively quickly , considering how what is being ranged is supersonic jet capable of quick acceleration and not a steady ground target. But what really makes me think its range is that the notion of 20km range has been brought up to the comments , and the poster of the video doesnt seem to deny it.

                          (Comments below).

                          In addition to that , range in formation does seem to be consistantly presented that way in russian aircraft panels , such as the 400 km range given by the radar of the su-35. Picture below
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • haavarla
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 6695

                            Interesting. But is it not possible to have both Thermal IR and Monocrome, but at each seperate channel?
                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • Scorpion82
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 4480

                              Originally posted by military noob View Post



                              Sorry but i have to disagree with you on this one. I think that we can not deny that its range information judging by the fact that the cursor changes relatively quickly , considering how what is being ranged is supersonic jet capable of quick acceleration and not a steady ground target. But what really makes me think its range is that the notion of 20km range has been brought up to the comments , and the poster of the video doesnt seem to deny it.

                              (Comments below).

                              In addition to that , range in formation does seem to be consistantly presented that way in russian aircraft panels , such as the 400 km range given by the radar of the su-35. Picture below
                              You can disagree ad much as you want, it's plain simple physics! The marker falls from 20 to 15 in 2 sec or so and moves from 30 to 40 in about 3 sec. At what speeds do you pretend to be flying? Hypersonics? And does the camera lose track of the target when it suddenly exceeds 40? Because it is the elevation gimbal limit that is exceeded.

                              so no its not range and all and the similarity between this elevation scale and range scales doesn't mean anything at all. Do the math your self how fast the aircraft must be flying to cover 10 km in 3 sec and or suddenly fall by 5 km in 2 sec or so. It simply makes no sense and it's quite easy to digest...

                              Comment

                              • military noob
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Mar 2017
                                • 11

                                Okay i stand corrected.

                                Comment

                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6107

                                  Great observation Scorpion82. But I think it's the offset angle and the arrow on teh number 8 is the sensor range setting. Given also the "target" seems to react to the "lock", we probably have a slew sensor (target is locked by the radar that pass its coordinates to the sensor).

                                  Comment

                                  • Scorpion82
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jul 2005
                                    • 4480

                                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                    Great observation Scorpion82. But I think it's the offset angle and the arrow on teh number 8 is the sensor range setting. Given also the "target" seems to react to the "lock", we probably have a slew sensor (target is locked by the radar that pass its coordinates to the sensor).
                                    It could be that the scale serves the double purpose of a range and elevation scale. The triangular marker moves slightly over video period, which may suggest marginal range changes at ~8 km. There is also a scale to the lower right which somewhat correlates with the arrow marker on the left scale, especially towards the end of the video. Whether or not the target aircraft reacts to a lock is difficult to say, as the maneuvers are too insignificant. Could well be that the target is bugged by the radar though as TV sensors typically lack autonomous search and are thus typically slaved by another senor. The eventual lose of lock is obviously owed to the target aircraft exceeding the sensor's gimbal limit. Platans layout appears to have limited gimbal limits compared to a TGP with a moving sensor head.

                                    Comment

                                    • TR1
                                      TR1
                                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                      • Oct 2010
                                      • 9817

                                      https://www.janes.com/article/88365/...on-guided-bomb

                                      VKS getting new sat guided glide bombs this year:

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                                      • panzerfeist1
                                        Rank 6 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2018
                                        • 394

                                        Random internet users using Open Source Intelligence to contact the Russian air force to perform an airstrike on the FSA camp

                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG1FWWX7ZPk

                                        The US quit supporting the FSA until 2017 so I am wondering if any of those internet users in the US got in trouble or not. There were a lot of pissed off Turkish comments(they still support the FSA with Qatar) that day as well.
                                        I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                                        Comment

                                        • LMFS
                                          Rank 4 Registered User
                                          • Feb 2018
                                          • 518

                                          Putin: the order for the Tu-160 bombers may be increased

                                          At the moment signed a contract to build ten cars, and ten aircraft needs to be upgraded.

                                          The Ministry of defence does not exclude the possibility of increasing the order of the strategic bombers Tu-160. The corresponding statement was made by Russian President Vladimir Putin during a visit to the aviation plant named after Gorbunov in Kazan.
                                          The President noted that the Tu-160 is getting a completely new car, with a huge need for the Ministry of defence capacities, and in this regard, the Ministry of defence does not preclude the extension of the order for these aircraft.

                                          tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019513177-iRHh8.html

                                          These statements come amidst new personal inspections by Putin and other high-ranking officials of MIC installations and performance. The aim is to guarantee theeffectivenes of the armed forces' modernization considering growing US military budget and threat level without allowing costs to soar.
                                          Last edited by LMFS; 13th May 2019, 15:29.

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