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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6512

    The Nebo-M is a Russian radar station that detects and tracks airborne targets, including ballistic missiles, stealth aircraft and even tiny drones. The system boasts unparalleled range: up to 1,800 km and a maximum altitude of 1,200 km. It has two radar systems that use different frequency ranges. The Nebo-M, mounted on three trucks, is also mobile and quick to deploy. Combat Approved takes a look and puts this mighty beast to the test.
    Nebo-M Radar Complex: The Stealth Buster


    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment

    • stealthflanker
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2015
      • 1027

      Originally posted by Austin View Post
      The Nebo-M is a Russian radar station that detects and tracks airborne targets, including ballistic missiles, stealth aircraft and even tiny drones. The system boasts unparalleled range: up to 1,800 km and a maximum altitude of 1,200 km. It has two radar systems that use different frequency ranges. The Nebo-M, mounted on three trucks, is also mobile and quick to deploy. Combat Approved takes a look and puts this mighty beast to the test.
      Nebo-M Radar Complex: The Stealth Buster

      This is one where they demonstrate capability against small drone which detected at about 7.7 km. The curious thing is that in the NNIIRT brochure is that they show "operational limit" range of 10 Km minimum.

      The minimum radar range is correspond to how short/long the pulse can be made. All radar systems have a minimum range, range when they cannot detect any object as their receiver is closed off during transmission. This correspond to the pulse width. 10 km range in brochure indicate the pulse width of the system is about 66 micoseconds. If they can pick at that range (7.7 km) the pulsewidth should be quite short. The Nebo is probably in short range mode (this is where the radar deliberately emit shorter pulse).

      Comment

      • TR1
        TR1
        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
        • Oct 2010
        • 9826

        Some good news out of Aviastar-SP, after years of delay, the first "serial" Il-76MD-90A was handed over (there were several previous airframes in a pre-serial batch, also a few for A-100 and Il-78MD90-A) :

        http://aviapressphoto.com/5003/

        And the next aiframe is ready to be painted:

        https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/118927/

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        And a couple of shots from Aviastar floor, looks like a couple more aiframes getting close to completion, as well as the production line itself:

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        Also, unrelated but some excellent photos from Ladoga-2009, Su-35S and Su-30SM:

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        Bunch more here:

        http://www.airforce.ru/content/repor...5-ladoga-2019/
        Attached Files
        sigpic

        Comment

        • Austin
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Oct 2003
          • 6512

          They have wing tip jammer pod on Su-30SM they need to add MAWS on SM like they have on Su-35 .......without MAWS it would not be possible to figure out if IR seeker missile is approaching it

          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

          Comment

          • Austin
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2003
            • 6512

            Russian MoD to receive first Mi-38T rotorcraft by June

            https://www.janes.com/article/87795/...rcraft-by-june
            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

            Comment

            • Flanker_man
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2000
              • 3681

              Russian MoD to receive first Mi-38T rotorcraft by June
              Blimey! - I thought our NHS waiting lists were bad......

              The Russian MoD has been waiting years for a Hip replacement !

              Sorry.... I'll get my coat...

              Ken
              Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
              Flankers (& others) website at :-
              http://flankers.co.uk/

              Comment

              • TR1
                TR1
                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                • Oct 2010
                • 9826

                Originally posted by Austin View Post
                They have wing tip jammer pod on Su-30SM they need to add MAWS on SM like they have on Su-35 .......without MAWS it would not be possible to figure out if IR seeker missile is approaching it
                Should be the AESA anetnna equipped L-265M, finally appearing here and there on Su-30SM, Su-34 and Su-35 have been flying with pods for years.

                yes I agree, not sure why MAWS has not been fitted to either it or the Su-34 yet. The replacement of Thales HUDs is also taking a long time.

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                https://www.militarynews.ru/story.as...505826&lang=RU

                "Russian Helicopters" planning to deliver ~250 helicopters to customers this year. 2018 saw around 200, 2017- 221 helicopters.
                sigpic

                Comment

                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6512

                  I wonder if they will use Id 30 engine for VTOL aircraft ? Paralay ?

                  http://tass.com/defense/1018022
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • a89
                    a89
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2011
                    • 376

                    And a couple of shots from Aviastar floor, looks like a couple more aiframes getting close to completion, as well as the production line itself:


                    Not military related, but has anyone commented on that Cairo Aviation Tu-204? They have been in storage for years. Maybe it is being converted to a freighter variant - Russian Post uses several.
                    History and Military Technology blog

                    alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

                    Comment

                    • Deino
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2000
                      • 4229

                      Originally posted by Austin View Post
                      I wonder if they will use Id 30 engine for VTOL aircraft ? Paralay ?

                      http://tass.com/defense/1018022

                      And how likely is it to reach any hardware status nor to become operationa??? IMO = Zero
                      ...

                      He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                      My working week and my Sunday rest,
                      My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                      I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                      The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                      Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                      Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                      For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                      -------------------------------------------------
                      W.H.Auden (1945)

                      Comment

                      • Austin
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 6512

                        Originally posted by Deino View Post


                        And how likely is it to reach any hardware status nor to become operationa??? IMO = Zero
                        Unless they plan to replace the Mig-29 and other less types like Su-25 with UCAV and as that link says Deputy PM for Defence Industry Borisov says "No doubt, this is the future for all aircraft-carrying ships and a new fleet of airplanes will be needed and precisely for this purpose various technologies are being used to provide for shortened take-off and landing or simply a vertical take-off," the vice-premier said.


                        They are looking at VTOL/STOL types for AC and perhaps even as replacement for the Mig - 29 and Su-25.
                        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6512

                          Originally posted by a89 View Post
                          [/SIZE]

                          Not military related, but has anyone commented on that Cairo Aviation Tu-204? They have been in storage for years. Maybe it is being converted to a freighter variant - Russian Post uses several.

                          https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...ets-freighters
                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                          Comment

                          • Austin
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2003
                            • 6512

                            They need to relook into the option of re-engine Tu-204SM with PD-14 .... this will give the SM atleast 10-12 % fuel saving over PS-90A2 and then re-introduce it for Russian airlines.

                            There is tremendous scope for Tu-204SM with PD-14 and MS-21 to co-exist
                            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                            Comment

                            • LMFS
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Feb 2018
                              • 563

                              Originally posted by Austin View Post
                              They are looking at VTOL/STOL types for AC and perhaps even as replacement for the Mig - 29 and Su-25.
                              Do you mean MiG-29 and Su-25 in VKS? Where have you seen that?

                              Regarding the STOL /STOVL discussion, let us keep in mind Su-57 is extremely capable as STOL, confirmed by designer and by Sukhoi implemented technology projects addressing high AoA landing modes. So it is not 100% clear to me they refer to STOVL exclusively.

                              They need to relook into the option of re-engine Tu-204SM with PD-14 .... this will give the SM atleast 10-12 % fuel saving over PS-90A2 and then re-introduce it for Russian airlines.

                              There is tremendous scope for Tu-204SM with PD-14 and MS-21 to co-exist
                              I have read about this indeed. They can use the new engines with their older airframes, both Tu-204 and Il-96 where fine planes that can very well cover the domestic needs if properly re-engined.

                              Comment

                              • Deino
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 4229

                                Originally posted by Austin View Post

                                Unless they plan to replace the Mig-29 and other less types like Su-25 with UCAV and as that link says Deputy PM for Defence Industry Borisov says "No doubt, this is the future for all aircraft-carrying ships and a new fleet of airplanes will be needed and precisely for this purpose various technologies are being used to provide for shortened take-off and landing or simply a vertical take-off," the vice-premier said.


                                They are looking at VTOL/STOL types for AC and perhaps even as replacement for the Mig - 29 and Su-25.
                                That was not my question? Especially in mind of other fantastic reports previously reported so often by politicians.

                                Again: How likely is this to reach hardware status?

                                ...

                                He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                                My working week and my Sunday rest,
                                My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                                I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                                The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                                Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                                Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                                For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                                -------------------------------------------------
                                W.H.Auden (1945)

                                Comment

                                • Austin
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2003
                                  • 6512

                                  Originally posted by LMFS View Post
                                  Do you mean MiG-29 and Su-25 in VKS? Where have you seen that?
                                  Why not ? VKS does not have funded LMFS so other than the VTOL there is no other type we know off under work.

                                  Unless VKS plans to completely replace the Mig-29 and Su-25 with a UCAV then this VTOL/STOL will have prospects to replacement for VKS and Navy in Medium weight category in Mig-29 MTOW category

                                  Regarding the STOL /STOVL discussion, let us keep in mind Su-57 is extremely capable as STOL, confirmed by designer and by Sukhoi implemented technology projects addressing high AoA landing modes. So it is not 100% clear to me they refer to STOVL exclusively.
                                  It does but it is a heavy aircraft as heavy as you can get and they would need a medium fighter in Mig-29K class in size weight

                                  I have read about this indeed. They can use the new engines with their older airframes, both Tu-204 and Il-96 where fine planes that can very well cover the domestic needs if properly re-engined.
                                  The Tu-204SM was a significant program for them as it was the first narrow body where they replaced 3 Crew in cockpit with 2 and introduced better engine i.e PS-90A2 and they simply went over to MS-21 program .....I think Tu-204SM has good potential if they replace the PS-90A2 with PD-14 engine may be PD-14M and considering its 100 % Russian components they can sell it to Cuba or Iran which is once again under sanctions to even buy civil types
                                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                  Comment

                                  • paralay
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2005
                                    • 1418

                                    If I understand the situation correctly, Russia can build up to four aircraft-carrying cruisers with a displacement of 40,000 tons. Each of them will require at least 24 short take-off and vertical landing fighters.
                                    Probably it will be single-engine multi-purpose aircraft. Options two:
                                    - Light Multi-Functional Fighter (LMFS) with one engine "izd 30" 17500 kgf / 11000 kgf
                                    - Medium Multi Functional Fighter (SMFI) with one engine 25000 kgf / 16000 kgf

                                    Comment

                                    • haavarla
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2008
                                      • 6715

                                      Originally posted by paralay View Post
                                      If I understand the situation correctly, Russia can build up to four aircraft-carrying cruisers with a displacement of 40,000 tons. Each of them will require at least 24 short take-off and vertical landing fighters.
                                      Probably it will be single-engine multi-purpose aircraft. Options two:
                                      - Light Multi-Functional Fighter (LMFS) with one engine "izd 30" 17500 kgf / 11000 kgf
                                      - Medium Multi Functional Fighter (SMFI) with one engine 25000 kgf / 16000 kgf
                                      Where did this come from?
                                      How about Russia first try to fix Crutz and get it operational..
                                      Thanks

                                      Comment

                                      • paralay
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 1418

                                        The aircraft carrier Kuznetsov will definitely be repaired and the su-33 will be upgraded. And then, after 2030, new aircraft carriers will be built

                                        Comment

                                        • LMFS
                                          Rank 4 Registered User
                                          • Feb 2018
                                          • 563

                                          Originally posted by Austin View Post
                                          Why not ? VKS does not have funded LMFS so other than the VTOL there is no other type we know off under work.
                                          Just wanted to check whether I had mist any relevant development here...

                                          Unless VKS plans to completely replace the Mig-29 and Su-25 with a UCAV then this VTOL/STOL will have prospects to replacement for VKS and Navy in Medium weight category in Mig-29 MTOW category
                                          Let's go step by step:

                                          - MiG-29: does Russia need a new medium fighter in the long term? Short term it can be replaced with MiG-35. Some official said this and Su-57 are the future of the air force. VKS needs to buy and establish operational conditions for the plane before foreign countries can buy with peace of mind
                                          - Su-25 is the plane with least need of replacement IMO. And if it is, an UCAV would be the best option in order to perform CAS with acceptable tolerance to attrition.
                                          - Is there a real need to produce a light fighter for the VKS? I don't see it quite clear to be honest! The gap until 6G can be covered with current units + Su-57. Then a A2A oriented UCAV would make more sense, to boost the Su-57 with numbers and expandability. Okhotnik would take care of A2G roles. A light fighter could be a good export product in any case.
                                          - A newer plane using available engines would need to be either big (2x Izd. 30/Izd. 117) or light size (1 engine). Otherwise, either a new R-79 or RD-33 would need to be developed. This may be decided out of industrial base considerations, but economically doesn't seem to make sense.

                                          It does but it is a heavy aircraft as heavy as you can get and they would need a medium fighter in Mig-29K class in size weight
                                          Why? New hull designs allow bigger air wing. A plane like Su-57 on board would be the most powerful naval fighter for some years to come and allow Russia to partially compensate for far lower numbers both in vessels and naval aircraft.

                                          For me the problem of the Russian naval aviation for the future has two main aspects:
                                          > CV, which needs protection against high end threats
                                          > LHDs, where some AD and strike capability from fighters is welcome and which IMHO would not operate alone in high threat areas.

                                          The Tu-204SM was a significant program for them as it was the first narrow body where they replaced 3 Crew in cockpit with 2 and introduced better engine i.e PS-90A2 and they simply went over to MS-21 program .....I think Tu-204SM has good potential if they replace the PS-90A2 with PD-14 engine may be PD-14M and considering its 100 % Russian components they can sell it to Cuba or Iran which is once again under sanctions to even buy civil types
                                          True, such countries would be prime customers too

                                          Originally posted by paralay
                                          If I understand the situation correctly, Russia can build up to four aircraft-carrying cruisers with a displacement of 40,000 tons. Each of them will require at least 24 short take-off and vertical landing fighters.
                                          Would be great to know where this understanding comes from, I am following the issue and have not found evidence to think this is the clear path forward, even being clearly possible. RuN has said they want 70 kT vessels. New Krylov developments would allow for such a capability with lower displacement but even then 40 kT seems right at the very lowest end of what allows to increase capabilities compared to Kuznetsov.

                                          STOVL or STOL: as said it does not seem totally clear it is STOVL and not STOL. In any case, I would see the development of a STOVL fighter if only it would make some economical sense. It will cost a lot of money and many years, for a very small number of planes. In order to make it feasible:

                                          - Co-develop with China and maybe other countries (now even Turkey may join) that have expressed intentions to use STOVL planes for their LHDs. That would spread the development costs at least.
                                          - Create a plane that can reasonably be used also in CTOL version by VKS and foreign countries. This is not trivial, see JSF for an example of negative effects.

                                          Probably it will be single-engine multi-purpose aircraft. Options two:
                                          - Light Multi-Functional Fighter (LMFS) with one engine "izd 30" 17500 kgf / 11000 kgf
                                          - Medium Multi Functional Fighter (SMFI) with one engine 25000 kgf / 16000 kgf
                                          I am sceptic about such thrust values for izd. 30, two tones more thrust than F119 looks exaggerated to me given they have the same size. The plane with this engine should be quite light (below 10 tones empty) and hence limited for the role of defending the fleet against high end threats.
                                          The medium plane would need a new engine, which means even more money for an already doubtful project. For carriers you want top performance, for LHDs you need small footprint. A medium fighter fulfils none of the two requirements as far as I can see.

                                          Why not Su-57 as naval fighter? It seems the obvious, short term, cheap solution that provides the best performance and helps in getting bigger production for Su-57. I fail to see what is the big problem honestly!

                                          IMHO the ideal solution would be two-pronged:

                                          1. Su-57 as main naval fighter for new RuN carriers, 2-3 squadrons per ship.
                                          2. A new light plane that could have the following versions:
                                          > STOVL UCAV: removing the cockpit would provide the space for a lifting fan and keep the main engine placed as far back as in conventional planes. This is the best propulsive solution IMO and would avoid aerodynamic and layout side effects with weapons bays and fuel tanks. It would be used in lower threat scenarios from LHDs helping with strike and AD roles with remote command and be turned later in fully autonomous, when this can be realistically done.
                                          > CTOL/STOL UCAV for VKS as complement for Su-57
                                          > CTOL, manned version for export and eventual RuAF needs.

                                          To play around with the manned / unmanned factor would allow to get an airframe that is capable both of CTOL and STOVL operation without the downsides we see in JSF.


                                          Last edited by LMFS; 11th April 2019, 17:52.

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