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    Originally posted by Austin View Post
    Any source you point out that mentions F-22/F-35 crushed Rafale/Typhoon in BVR and WVR combat ? I did not read this before
    Not off the top of my head. Yet, it's common knowledge.....No 4/4.5 Generation Fighter has a chance vs F-22 and F-35.

    F-35 suffered no losses at Red Flag 19-2...


    Red Flag 19-2 participants update

    As we mentioned yesterday on SFN (Scramble Facebook News), the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) F-15SA is expected to participate in Red Flag (RF) 19-2 for the first time. The multinational exercise will be running from 3 March until 16 March 2019. The full and detailed list of participants has come to our attention:

    1GP F-16E/F-16F UAE
    10 Wing F-16AM/F-16BM Belgium
    16th ACCS E-8C Robins AFB
    29sq F-15SA Saudi Arabia
    62d FS F-35A Luke AFB
    34th BS B-1B Ellsworth AFB
    55th RQS HH-60G Davis Monthan AFB
    71st RQS HC-130J Moody AFB
    322sq F-16AM/F-16BM Netherlands *
    334sq KDC-10A Netherlands
    336th FS F-15E Seymour Johnson
    428th FS F-15SG Singapore
    964th AACS E-3G Tinker AFB
    VAQ-134 EA-18G NAS Whidbey Island

    Comment

    • RadDisconnect
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jul 2013
      • 523

      Scooter if you have nothing to add about RuAF get out of this thread. F-35 and FC-31 are not what this topic is about, stop pushing your ridiculous theories.

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      • Guest's Avatar
        Guest

        From Red Flag 19-1

        QUOTE:
        Ive never seen anything like it before. This is not a mission you want a young pilot flying in. My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training. He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft. Hey bud, you need to turn around. Youre about to die. Theres a threat off your nose.

        The young pilot then killed the enemy aircraft and had three more kills in the hour-long mission.

        Even in this extremely challenging environment, the F-35 didnt have many difficulties doing its job, thats a testament to the pilots training and the capabilities of the jet.

        Comment

        • RadDisconnect
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jul 2013
          • 523

          Originally posted by Scooter View Post
          From Red Flag 19-1

          QUOTE:
          Ive never seen anything like it before. This is not a mission you want a young pilot flying in. My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training. He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft. Hey bud, you need to turn around. Youre about to die. Theres a threat off your nose.

          The young pilot then killed the enemy aircraft and had three more kills in the hour-long mission.

          Even in this extremely challenging environment, the F-35 didnt have many difficulties doing its job, thats a testament to the pilots training and the capabilities of the jet.
          This is RuAF topic NOT F-35 topic. Your dick waving is adding nothing here.

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          • Guest's Avatar
            Guest

            Originally posted by RadDisconnect View Post
            Scooter if you have nothing to add about RuAF get out of this thread. F-35 and FC-31 are not what this topic is about, stop pushing your ridiculous theories.
            If, it relates to the subject matter I'll stay. Plus, I don't answer to you....


            SUBJECT MATTER.....was comparing 4th Generation Fighters to 5th Generation Fighters. Which, clearly applies to the RuAF.

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            • RadDisconnect
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jul 2013
              • 523

              Originally posted by Scooter View Post

              If, it relates to the subject matter I'll stay. Plus, I don't answer to you....


              SUBJECT MATTER.....was comparing 4th Generation Fighters to 5th Generation Fighters. Which, clearly applies to the RuAF.
              I rarely see such combination of arrogance and ignorance.

              RuAF is getting 5th gen fighter. It's the Su-57, and it will come in mid 2020s. It's standard Russian practice to order small batches before large production happens. They don't do LRIP like in US. Also RuAF doctrine doesn't need large fleet of stealth strike fighter they don't operate to project power. The whole FC-31 for Russia theory you keep saying just shows you don't know Russian doctrine or how they buy aircraft.

              You're just repeating same thing again and again. We get what you mean, you don't have to keep repeating.

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              • Guest's Avatar
                Guest

                Originally posted by RadDisconnect View Post

                I rarely see such combination of arrogance and ignorance.

                RuAF is getting 5th gen fighter. It's the Su-57, and it will come in mid 2020s. It's standard Russian practice to order small batches before large production happens. They don't do LRIP like in US. Also RuAF doctrine doesn't need large fleet of stealth strike fighter they don't operate to project power. The whole FC-31 for Russia theory you keep saying just shows you don't know Russian doctrine or how they buy aircraft.

                You're just repeating same thing again and again. We get what you mean, you don't have to keep repeating.
                If, you only had a clue of what your talking about.........

                Comment

                • JSR
                  JSR
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 4950

                  Originally posted by Scooter View Post

                  China will build the J-20 and J-31 is large numbers. You can count on it....

                  China still playing with D-30 powered bombers and transports. and you think it can master true 5.5G fighters.

                  http://energy-leader.net/group/d-30kp-engine-upgrading-development/
                  For the 4th generation of D-30KP series, the D-30KP-4 engine, on 8th September 2015, the holding company HK Dong Fang Energy Co. Ltd and NPO Saturn Engine Design Bureau
                  has entered into an agreement on aviation engine upgrading development project,
                  the joint development of the D-30KP-4 engine between Chinese and Russian authorities will commence soon and its serial production will be held in mainland China.




                  Russia has exported 400 thrust vector fighters.and built another 250 TVC fighters for itself. and all those fighters capable carrying much more fuel and heavy pods than any Chinese built fighter.

                  nothing prevents a 4G fighter from firing stealthy and fast missiles in much greater quantity. you know that India and Its air launched Brahmos story. you keep harping about India and PAKFA. but never comment on Brahmos.
                  I enjoy your statements as the more you write the more fun...

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                  • Guest's Avatar
                    Guest

                    Originally posted by JSR View Post
                    China still playing with D-30 powered bombers and transports. and you think it can master true 5.5G fighters.

                    [/SIZE]




                    Russia has exported 400 thrust vector fighters.and built another 250 TVC fighters for itself. and all those fighters capable carrying much more fuel and heavy pods than any Chinese built fighter.

                    nothing prevents a 4G fighter from firing stealthy and fast missiles in much greater quantity. you know that India and Its air launched Brahmos story. you keep harping about India and PAKFA. but never comment on Brahmos.
                    I enjoy your statements as the more you write the more fun...


                    Most Air Combat happens at BVR. So, don't think those TVC Fighters are going to be much help. In addition the core requirements for any 5th Generation Fighter is "Stealth and Sensor Fusion". Which, is why India left the PAK-FA/FGFA (Su-57) Fighter Program in the first place.

                    As for Engines China is generally still behind Russia. Yet, is gaining fast and will very likely surpass them in the near future. As they have the knowledge, desire, and most of all the money to do so!

                    Also, I love it when Russian Supporters complain about Chinese Engines and list it as a failure of their Stealth Designs. While, totally overlooking the fact. That China can buy as many Russian Engines as it likes and Russia will be happy to sell them.....

                    Point here is it hardly matters if Chinese J-20's or J-31's have Russian or Chinese Engines. If, they can be acquired and produced in respectable numbers.



                    Lastly, what some just don't seem to get. Is Russia is "no longer" the Super Power of the Soviet Era. It's GDP is around that of Australia or Canada. It just doesn't have the resources to keep up with China or even India. Let alone the US....

                    Nor, will it be able to fund all of the former Soviet Era Weapons it now has. That is just the cold hard truth and that truth is just around the corner!

                    It won't be long before Russia starts buying Weapons from China. That is just the current reality........


                    Comment

                    • TR1
                      TR1
                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 9804

                      Originally posted by RadDisconnect View Post

                      I rarely see such combination of arrogance and ignorance.
                      LOL That is literally the perfect choice of words.

                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • JSR
                        JSR
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 4950

                        Originally posted by Scooter View Post



                        Most Air Combat happens at BVR. So, don't think those TVC Fighters are going to be much help. In addition the core requirements for any 5th Generation Fighter is "Stealth and Sensor Fusion". Which, is why India left the PAK-FA/FGFA (Su-57) Fighter Program in the first place.
                        than why F-22 has TVC engine and why India accepted TVC engine in fighter. They could have bough simple Flanker design like China.

                        As for Engines China is generally still behind Russia. Yet, is gaining fast and will very likely surpass them in the near future. As they have the knowledge, desire, and most of all the money to do so!
                        catching up fast in engines? what scientific evidence you have to make such statement. start with trainer engine than helicopter engines.
                        Also, I love it when Russian Supporters complain about Chinese Engines and list it as a failure of their Stealth Designs. While, totally overlooking the fact. That China can buy as many Russian Engines as it likes and Russia will be happy to sell them.....
                        stealth designs are heavy. they need proper engine for optimum performance of range and sustainable speed.
                        Point here is it hardly matters if Chinese J-20's or J-31's have Russian or Chinese Engines. If, they can be acquired and produced in respectable numbers.
                        there is no evidence that Chinese can produce complex stuff faster than Russia.
                        if they are producing J-20 faster than T-50 it means J-20 is much simpler and less advance product.
                        just look at ARJ21 production rates. and the lack of composite materials in C919 (built with Russian titanium).
                        http://www.rusaviainsider.com/titanium-success/
                        VSMPO-AVISMA acts as a supplier for Chinas flagship commercial aviation program of the C919 medium-haul jetliner.



                        Lastly, what some just don't seem to get. Is Russia is "no longer" the Super Power of the Soviet Era. It's GDP is around that of Australia or Canada. It just doesn't have the resources to keep up with China or even India. Let alone the US....

                        Nor, will it be able to fund all of the former Soviet Era Weapons it now has. That is just the cold hard truth and that truth is just around the corner!

                        It won't be long before Russia starts buying Weapons from China. That is just the current reality........

                        Australia and Canada do not have real GDP. they are raw material countries just like Brazil or Kazakhistan.

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                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Guest

                          Karl Popper

                          Ignorance is not a simple lack of knowledge but an active aversion to knowledge, the refusal to know, issuing from cowardice, pride, or laziness of mind.

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                          • Guest's Avatar
                            Guest

                            Originally posted by JSR View Post
                            than why F-22 has TVC engine and why India accepted TVC engine in fighter. They could have bough simple Flanker design like China.


                            catching up fast in engines? what scientific evidence you have to make such statement. start with trainer engine than helicopter engines.

                            stealth designs are heavy. they need proper engine for optimum performance of range and sustainable speed.

                            there is no evidence that Chinese can produce complex stuff faster than Russia.
                            if they are producing J-20 faster than T-50 it means J-20 is much simpler and less advance product.
                            just look at ARJ21 production rates. and the lack of composite materials in C919 (built with Russian titanium).
                            [/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]




                            Australia and Canada do not have real GDP. they are raw material countries just like Brazil or Kazakhistan.
                            I'll make it simple for you. Russia is broke and has little money.......

                            Comment

                            • Austin
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Oct 2003
                              • 6463

                              Originally posted by Scooter View Post
                              From Red Flag 19-1

                              QUOTE:
                              Ive never seen anything like it before. This is not a mission you want a young pilot flying in. My wingman was a brand new F-35A pilot, seven or eight flights out of training. He gets on the radio and tells an experienced, 3,000-hour pilot in a very capable fourth-generation aircraft. Hey bud, you need to turn around. Youre about to die. Theres a threat off your nose.

                              The young pilot then killed the enemy aircraft and had three more kills in the hour-long mission.

                              Even in this extremely challenging environment, the F-35 didnt have many difficulties doing its job, thats a testament to the pilots training and the capabilities of the jet.
                              I was looking more of result from EF and Rafale encounter with F-35 or F-22 ...... because I heard some thing of contrary where EF could hold its own againts 5th Gen fighter and so did Rafale

                              But lets end this discussion here or move to appropriate thread
                              "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                              Comment

                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                Originally posted by Austin View Post

                                I was looking more of result from EF and Rafale encounter with F-35 or F-22 ...... because I heard some thing of contrary where EF could hold its own againts 5th Gen fighter and so did Rafale

                                But lets end this discussion here or move to appropriate thread
                                The Rafale and Typhoon wouldn't be anymore successful than F-15SA's or F-16 Blk 60's against the F-22/F-35. That is easily supportable. Nonetheless, we can discuss it on another thread later.....

                                Comment

                                • Privateer454
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Aug 2010
                                  • 110

                                  Originally posted by Scooter View Post

                                  Not off the top of my head. Yet, it's common knowledge.....No 4/4.5 Generation Fighter has a chance vs F-22 and F-35.

                                  F-35 suffered no losses at Red Flag 19-2...


                                  Red Flag 19-2 participants update

                                  As we mentioned yesterday on SFN (Scramble Facebook News), the Royal Saudi Air Force (RSAF) F-15SA is expected to participate in Red Flag (RF) 19-2 for the first time. The multinational exercise will be running from 3 March until 16 March 2019. The full and detailed list of participants has come to our attention:

                                  1GP F-16E/F-16F UAE
                                  10 Wing F-16AM/F-16BM Belgium
                                  16th ACCS E-8C Robins AFB
                                  29sq F-15SA Saudi Arabia
                                  62d FS F-35A Luke AFB
                                  34th BS B-1B Ellsworth AFB
                                  55th RQS HH-60G Davis Monthan AFB
                                  71st RQS HC-130J Moody AFB
                                  322sq F-16AM/F-16BM Netherlands *
                                  334sq KDC-10A Netherlands
                                  336th FS F-15E Seymour Johnson
                                  428th FS F-15SG Singapore
                                  964th AACS E-3G Tinker AFB
                                  VAQ-134 EA-18G NAS Whidbey Island
                                  Impressive list, of course, but here is what Red Air was made up of... Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-03-29 11_33_43-Past and Upcoming Red Flag Units.png
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ID:	3858518

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                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                    • Oct 2010
                                    • 9804

                                    It'sHappening 2.0:

                                    Click image for larger version

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ID:	3858801

                                    sigpic

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                                    • stealthflanker
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2015
                                      • 1007

                                      Looking forward to Su-35 version.

                                      Comment

                                      • haavarla
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 6652

                                        Click image for larger version  Name:	36009210.jpg Views:	0 Size:	105.1 KB ID:	3858815
                                        Well waddauknow!! I have waited a long time for that TR1, Interesting!
                                        Is there any more news on the double pylon Rack, as we saw on Su-35S ealier this year?
                                        Is that something that has gone out to Frontline Air Regiments?
                                        Last edited by haavarla; 7th April 2019, 12:21.
                                        Thanks

                                        Comment

                                        • TR1
                                          TR1
                                          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                          • Oct 2010
                                          • 9804

                                          Don't know how common it is or if it has been cleared for service, but it has been spotted outside of MAKS:

                                          Click image for larger version

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ID:	3858827
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