Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RuAF News and development Thread part 15

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (0 members and 10 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest

    Originally posted by Lt Anderson View Post

    Did I say I know something? Only you know nothing.
    You waste your time and your health.
    I'd like real infos, not rumors.
    Really, I don't you making your case. Let along trying to support it with sources......


    Just another so-called expert......(i.e. kid)

    Comment

    • Guest's Avatar
      Guest

      Originally posted by Lt Anderson View Post

      Did I say I know something? Only you know nothing.
      You waste your time and your health.
      I'd like real infos, not rumors.
      How about making a case that the Su-57 is a capable machine (LOL) and that Russia will build it in large numbers. (LOL)

      Comment

      • haavarla
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2008
        • 6715

        Originally posted by Scooter View Post

        The market place will have "thousands" of Stealth Fighters by 2030...I think it is safe to say Russia would need several hundred at least. Even then that would be an extremely modest number. Considering that Russia has the largest "Territory" of any nation on the planet.

        So, Russia better start building hundreds of fighters annually. If, it has any hope of competing....

        Anybody think Russia is going to start building vast numbers of Su-57's in the coming decade???
        Are you drunk...?
        What you just wrote makes no sense what so ever.
        I do not belive they need 1200's of Su-57.

        If we add together all 4th gen Flankers, Mig-31, Su-24M, Su-34 Mig-29S, it is around 1000, give or take.

        Russia has the best Anti Air structure in the world, this also gives them breathing room.

        And ofc all the Nukes..
        Thanks

        Comment

        • LMFS
          Rank 4 Registered User
          • Feb 2018
          • 563

          Originally posted by haavarla View Post
          If we add together all 4th gen Flankers, Mig-31, Su-24M, Su-34 Mig-29S, it is around 1000, give or take.
          True. And besides Russia has planes tailored to specific missions that have no parallels in the world anymore. They have capabilities that a multirole plane simply cannot match.
          MiG-31s can simply engage and disengage at will with enemy fighters and carry extremely fast, long range AAMs which could strike their key air power assets very easily. It can also launch Kinzhals without giving almost time to react.
          Su-34 and Tu-22M3 are extremely powerful tactical and naval bombers respectively which are much more effective than way bigger numbers of tactical multirole fighters.

          Russia has the best Anti Air structure in the world, this also gives them breathing room.
          Exactly, I think a majority of the kills in a conflict would probably be done by SAMs. So fighters reinforce that AD network instead of doing all the heavy lifting. But it is pointless to discuss with people that don't want to learn.

          And ofc all the Nukes..
          Of course. The moment a build-up of forces at the Russian borders reaches some limit, nukes will start flying. So USAF can have trillions of F-35 if they will, they will be of no use for anyone but for LM stockholders.

          Some US guys just keep trying to compare VVS with USAF without understanding that Russia does not have almost any base abroad and has a defensive stance. They should compare more with National Air Guard and the parallel would be more accurate.

          Comment

          • GromOzekA
            Rank 4 Registered User
            • May 2018
            • 42

            Originally posted by Levsha View Post

            It's certainly an immature design compared to F-22 and F-35 - compared to Su-57, who knows?

            How do you know all this? That's right - you don't.
            There is a lot of speculation about J-31, but lack of objective info. We know it made maiden flight two and half years after Su-57. Only two prototypes of J-31 was "shown" to public. It was fitted with RD-33 - decent but clearly 4th gen engine, on the other hand AL-41F1 is a 5th gen engine by all specific parameters exept supercruise and stealth. Even new J-31 prototype is flying with an extended pitot tube in the nose - first characteristic of immature design. It's kinda obvious that Su-57 is much more finished project than J-31 at the moment.

            All the announced J-31 parameters are inferior to MiG-29. Speed, range, ceiling. Not a surprize. It's carrying a weapon bays that increase weight and size. It has stealth airframe that decreases aerodynamic qualities, but fitted with same engine. Some sources did shown parameters of new engine, like 9000kN wet thrust - marginally better than RD-33MK. It barely would overlaps the drawbacks of airframe design.

            Comparison with F-35 just look unnecessary. On one hand - most sophisticated and ambitious joint aviation program, on the other hand - obscure second tier medicore fighter lacking any unique features.

            Comment

            • paralay
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2005
              • 1418

              If the Su-57 replaces the MiG-31 and Su-27 in the Russian Air Force, then no more than 240 units can be purchased, plus an export.
              If, in addition to the Su-57, a PAK DP and LMFS will be developed, then no more than 127 fighters, plus 176 for export.

              Comment

              • BlackArcher
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2010
                • 4374

                Scooter, can you please stop derailing this thread with your repeated posts that harp on the same thing? We get what your opinion is, so just leave it at that.

                Comment

                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6512

                  Originally posted by paralay View Post
                  If the Su-57 replaces the MiG-31 and Su-27 in the Russian Air Force, then no more than 240 units can be purchased, plus an export.
                  If, in addition to the Su-57, a PAK DP and LMFS will be developed, then no more than 127 fighters, plus 176 for export.
                  Flanker has a large customer base as of date and if even half of the customer decide to replace the Flanker with another Heavy Fighter then PAK-FA will be the logical choice for them.

                  But these replacement for export customers and even Russia will happen not in the next decade but the decade after that means after 2030 , Many of the Flanker customer including RuAF and even IAF and few others are inducting Flankers in some form either Su-30 or 35 series besides the one already inducted in the last and current decade has upgrade potential that will see them service till 25 more years.

                  This looks like a classic case of Mi-17/8 versus Mi-38 ........Where the latter was developed to replace the former but the former is still in great demand affecting the sales of latter.

                  Targeting ME market with Su-57 is a better choice for sales involving few dozens in next decade , These AF are Boyz with Toys and kids in town to buy latest what money can buy

                  LMFS is a dead project there is no funding for it under current GPV and PAK-DP though funded under GPV 2018-2026 is replacement for Mig-31 so does not have much perhaps zero export potential. ...............Most countries in the world does not have even 1/3 land mass of Russia for the need to have a high speed interceptor.
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • LMFS
                    Rank 4 Registered User
                    • Feb 2018
                    • 563

                    Originally posted by paralay View Post
                    If the Su-57 replaces the MiG-31 and Su-27 in the Russian Air Force, then no more than 240 units can be purchased, plus an export.
                    If, in addition to the Su-57, a PAK DP and LMFS will be developed, then no more than 127 fighters, plus 176 for export.
                    Plus considering that Okhotnik is also in the making (probably to boost Su-57) and MiG-35 should be purchased too. So probably in a more distant future VVS should have Su-57, PAK-DP and Okhotnik + (maybe) A2A role UCAV + remnants of 4G fighters according to their remaining life. Otherwise the numbers for each type would be very small. For the decade of 2020 no huge buys of Su-57 should be needed nor expected since Su-30/34/35 are pretty new.

                    Comment

                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6512

                      https://www.militarynews.ru/story.as...505239&lang=RU

                      Moscow. April 2nd. INTERFAX-AVN - Russia is set to implement a contract for the supply of Turkey with S-400 air defense systems, Chairman of the Duma Defense Committee Vladimir Shamanov told Interfax on Tuesday.

                      Were definitely not giving up deliveries of S-400 to Turkey. Its not for this that we took a long time to deliver our Triumph anti-aircraft complex to Turkey, said V. Shamanov.
                      At the same time, he believes that "the refusal of Turkey (from the S-400 Triumph - IF) cannot be ruled out."
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • TR1
                        TR1
                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 9826

                        Originally posted by Lt Anderson View Post

                        Boooooring...
                        You know nothing.
                        lol, you know Scooter is a running joke on this forum right? Add him to your ignore list and move on.

                        He is comically clueless about anything non-American, and does nothing but spout American fanboyism.

                        Earlier this decade he was making the claims that VKS would not purchase hundreds of new Flankers. As with every one of his predictions, he was laughably wrong.
                        Now he is desperately and insecurely grasping on to the comical notion pandered in certain English news media that the Su-57 won't be mass produced. Years ago it was clear what was really happening in regards to mass production (post 2020, maybe 2022/2023 when izd 30 is ready for serial production and Knaaz has actually been refitted with a production line for the plane), the only difference is the initial 117 batch was cut down to just enough to flog the air-frame, test weapons at Akhtubinsk and probably a few airframes for Lipetsk to develop tactics with.

                        There is of course zero actual evidence about performance failures as well, past the air-frame difficulties that had in the first half of this decade, but that is what happens when you have extremely high performance goals as well as wide-spread use of new materials that the Soviet-legacy planes largely lacked.
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • Guest's Avatar
                          Guest

                          Originally posted by haavarla View Post

                          Are you drunk...?
                          What you just wrote makes no sense what so ever.
                          I do not belive they need 1200's of Su-57.

                          If we add together all 4th gen Flankers, Mig-31, Su-24M, Su-34 Mig-29S, it is around 1000, give or take.

                          Russia has the best Anti Air structure in the world, this also gives them breathing room.

                          And ofc all the Nukes..
                          Really, 4th Generation Fighters will be obsolete by 2030 if not before. So, not sure how those 1000 Mig-29's, Mig-31's, Su-30's, and Su-35's are going to be of any help??? Especially, when they would have to face "thousands" of Enemy Stealth Fighters from the West and China.

                          As for Nuclear Weapons they're useless. As Russia has no more of a Death Wish than anybody else.....

                          Comment

                          • Guest's Avatar
                            Guest

                            Originally posted by TR1 View Post

                            lol, you know Scooter is a running joke on this forum right? Add him to your ignore list and move on.

                            He is comically clueless about anything non-American, and does nothing but spout American fanboyism.

                            Earlier this decade he was making the claims that VKS would not purchase hundreds of new Flankers. As with every one of his predictions, he was laughably wrong.
                            Now he is desperately and insecurely grasping on to the comical notion pandered in certain English news media that the Su-57 won't be mass produced. Years ago it was clear what was really happening in regards to mass production (post 2020, maybe 2022/2023 when izd 30 is ready for serial production and Knaaz has actually been refitted with a production line for the plane), the only difference is the initial 117 batch was cut down to just enough to flog the air-frame, test weapons at Akhtubinsk and probably a few airframes for Lipetsk to develop tactics with.

                            There is of course zero actual evidence about performance failures as well, past the air-frame difficulties that had in the first half of this decade, but that is what happens when you have extremely high performance goals as well as wide-spread use of new materials that the Soviet-legacy planes largely lacked.
                            The "Cold Hard Truth" is some of the members have lived in a Dream World for sometime now. Like in some kind of "Fantasy World" of Fiction. Believing the absurd "Propaganda" spread by other fanboys and sources like RT and Sputnik.....

                            I suggest you take a good look in the mirror. Before you cast any stones.....


                            Honestly, only reason some don't like me. Is because I challenge their "Absurd Claims". So, don't think I would be hurt by being put on someone's ignore list.
                            Last edited by Scooter; 3rd April 2019, 01:07.

                            Comment

                            • paralay
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 1418

                              Originally posted by Scooter View Post
                              Especially, when they would have to face "thousands" of Enemy Stealth Fighters from the West and China
                              And what will happen if China has to face the advanced Western technology and inflexible Russian Spirit?

                              Comment

                              • Guest's Avatar
                                Guest

                                Originally posted by paralay View Post
                                And what will happen if China has to face the advanced Western technology and inflexible Russian Spirit?
                                China will build the J-20 and J-31 is large numbers. You can count on it....

                                Comment

                                • haavarla
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6715

                                  Originally posted by Scooter View Post

                                  Really, 4th Generation Fighters will be obsolete by 2030 if not before. So, not sure how those 1000 Mig-29's, Mig-31's, Su-30's, and Su-35's are going to be of any help??? Especially, when they would have to face "thousands" of Enemy Stealth Fighters from the West and China.

                                  As for Nuclear Weapons they're useless. As Russia has no more of a Death Wish than anybody else.....
                                  I am 100% right on this. I think Russia will get a good balance on their Inventory.

                                  Nukes are useless.. lol! Right. Pls look up the phrase deterrence. It goes well beyond NC weapons.

                                  Must be why Israelis, US, China, India and Russia is spending Billions on it, and why US and Israeli are so afraid other countries might get it.

                                  Seriously, its like talking to a 12 year old man child. The next stupidity after the other.

                                  There will be plenty of 4th Gen fighters in the west in 2030, you need to come down Scooter.

                                  Thanks

                                  Comment

                                  • Guest's Avatar
                                    Guest

                                    Originally posted by haavarla View Post

                                    I am 100% right on this. I think Russia will get a good balance on their Inventory.

                                    Nukes are useless.. lol! Right. Pls look up the phrase deterrence. It goes well beyond NC weapons.

                                    Must be why Israelis, US, China, India and Russia is spending Billions on it, and why US and Israeli are so afraid other countries might get it.

                                    Seriously, its like talking to a 12 year old man child. The next stupidity after the other.

                                    There will be plenty of 4th Gen fighters in the west in 2030, you need to come down Scooter.
                                    The US will operate a large number of 4th Generation Fighters over the next decade or so. Yet, can afford to do so. Because it will also have "vast" numbers of Stealth Fighters. (both F-22's and F-35's)


                                    Yet, without Stealth Fighters no Air Force has hope of maintaining "Air Superiority". Without it you can't win on the Battle Field or at Sea. That is just "FACT"....


                                    QUOTE:

                                    "When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighterthe [latter] dies,

                                    USAF Gen. Mark Welsh


                                    Nonetheless, the problem for Russia is a number of NATO Air Forces in Europe will operate a good number of F-35A's by 2030. These include Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Norway, Italy, and United Kingdom. In addition a number of potential customers like Finland and Poland are in the wind and are likely to sign on anytime. (plus others)

                                    These easily could defeat the Russian Air Force with no help from the US....


                                    This is just the cold hard truth.....(again)

                                    BTW The US and Israel are hardly "afraid" of the Su-57. I would have to call that an "Oxymoron".....

                                    Comment

                                    • Austin
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2003
                                      • 6512

                                      Originally posted by Scooter View Post
                                      QUOTE:

                                      "When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighterthe [latter] dies,

                                      USAF Gen. Mark Welsh
                                      Did Rafale or Eurofighter die when they met F-35 or F-22 in any mock combat ? I am sure they must have done many in Redflag
                                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                      Comment

                                      • Guest's Avatar
                                        Guest

                                        Originally posted by Austin View Post

                                        Did Rafale or Eurofighter die when they met F-35 or F-22 in any mock combat ? I am sure they must have done many in Redflag
                                        CRUSHED

                                        The exchange rates for the F-22 and F-35 are off the scale. (over 20+ to 1) Yet, your on a Military Aviation Forum and don't know that???
                                        Last edited by Scooter; 3rd April 2019, 06:37.

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6512

                                          Any source you point out that mentions F-22/F-35 crushed Rafale/Typhoon in BVR and WVR combat ? I did not read this before
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X