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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • JSR
    JSR
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2011
    • 4950

    The Mi-38 has had an extraordinary gestation period - even by Russian standards!
    There is IL-96-400M that is coming out that plane have even longer gestation period and its understandable with such steep criteria for making complex products.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKCN1ND17F
    ZHUHAI, China (Reuters) - Russia wants to achieve full independence in its ability to develop civil aircraft in order to avoid being pushed around by dominant companies and countries in the industrys supply chain, a senior Russian state executive said.

    Comment

    • Dr.Snufflebug
      Boggleboople snufflebug
      • Aug 2012
      • 521

      And another new one... Il-112V roll-out, in preparation for the first flight:

      sigpic

      Comment

      • JSR
        JSR
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Aug 2011
        • 4950

        that all needed to gain experience.
        https://www.arabianaerospace.aero/sa...stic-toys.html
        Last edited by JSR; 2nd December 2018, 04:35.

        Comment

        • hoapilot
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2011
          • 83

          As i know, IL-112V has similiar dimension to C-295, but payload, range, ... less than C-295, even more Chinese Y-7. In my opinion, Russian avaiation industry should focus on Il-276 instead of light aircraft has similiar payload to Soviet An-26 out-dated.
          " Spratly and Paracel islands belongs to Vietnam "
          " Hong Sa v Trường Sa l của Việt Nam "

          Comment

          • JSR
            JSR
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2011
            • 4950


            its big T-tail design.. you cannot compare it with passenger design turbo props.

            https://www.janes.com/article/83180/...flight-aad18d2
            As part of the reborn Il-112V project, Klimov was invited to provide an improved engine, the 2,800shp (with higher emergency rating) TV7-117S series 2, while radio-electronics house KRET was charged with adapting its President-S helicopter defensive suite to the Il-112V for battlefield operations.

            Comment

            • haavarla
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2008
              • 6652

              Hellduck Alert!
              A short but awesome video of Su-25 and Su-34.
              The sequence where the Su-34 lower its MLG is gold!
              Also when it briefly dumps fuel out of its Nozzles..

              https://youtu.be/vgo0ROQhu1U
              Last edited by haavarla; 12th December 2018, 12:20.
              Thanks

              Comment

              • Austin
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2003
                • 6463

                Russia & CIS Observer

                http://www.rusaviainsider.com/wp-con...i-2018-low.pdf
                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                Comment

                • panzerfeist1
                  Rank 6 Registered User
                  • Feb 2018
                  • 341

                  Don't know if this has been posted way back in this forum.

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid...24&app=desktop

                  This is the Mi-8 helicopters imaging system. 0:36 seems to offer some good detail on the moon.
                  I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                  Comment

                  • Austin
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Oct 2003
                    • 6463

                    Inside Look: Russias Air Force is Best in the World, Constantly Innovating and Reaching New Heights

                    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                    Comment

                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6463

                      How does PD-14 Engine compared with CFM LEAP. Engine , The latter seems to have higher byratio compared to PD 14 8.5

                      Still PD-14 claims to have similar fuel consumption compared to LEAP or even GTF engine of P&W

                      Any specific advantage PD-14 have over LEAP or GTF engine ?

                      http://www.avid.ru/en/pd14/
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • XB-70
                        Rank 4 Registered User
                        • May 2018
                        • 280

                        Any specific advantage PD-14 have over LEAP or GTF engine ?
                        Probably not. It's a close competitor that keeps them from falling far behind, but it's not state of the art. But they can compete on price.

                        That being said, the PD-14 engine core has a lot of potential for future development - unlike the PS-90, which was, unfortunately, kind of a road to nowhere. But the new core will have cousin designs servicing large airliners (PD-35) and heavy lift helis (PD-12V). So there are lots and lots of opportunities to incrementally improve and evolve the design. It sets the Russian aerospace industry up for continuing to compete in modern airliners and next generation transports and helicopters. And that is something they really, really want to tap into before the Chinese gain the technical ability to do so.

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6463

                          They said PD-35 will be a new design not a bigger PD-14. There is PD-9/10 being mentioned for SSJ-100R and PD-12V for Mi-26 , If MS-21-400 project gets green light then will see PD-14M

                          Was wondering how does PD-14 has same fuel consumption as LEAP even though latter has higher bypass ratio of 12 compared to 8.5 for PD
                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                          Comment

                          • XB-70
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • May 2018
                            • 280

                            PD-35 is a scaled up, evolved version of the core. They are upscaling the PD-14 design and adding in some new technologies such as CMCs and a carbon fiber epoxy fan. It's not a "from the ground up" new design. PD-10 likely will not happen, at least not any time soon. The Russian aerospace engine industry has a full plate with continued PD-14 teething support (if needed), and then Izdeliye 30, NK-32 series 2, PD-12V, PD-35, etc. development.

                            Bypass ratio is not as closely correlated with fuel efficiency as you suppose. You have three main sections in a turbofan - the fan, the compressor, and the turbine. (You got to take the different characteristics of the HP and LP sections of the turbine and compressor too.) Each of these have their individual "ideal" point for rotational speed to yield maximum efficiency. Trouble is, you got only one main shaft that they are all coupled to. You can divide this into two or three spools to provide for a little bit of optimization between them, but not much. (Unless if you put a hefty gear mechanism between the fan and the compressor, because the fan has the largest difference in optimum rotational speed).

                            So, to make use of a larger diameter fan - a greater bypass ratio - you need to design a compressor and turbine that can operate with a slower rotational speed. In practice, you might lose a little bit of efficiency in the turbine and compressor. Taken together, you generally still see a slight gain. Try to compare all factors (if you can find them) - fuel consumption, noise emissions, NOX emissions, and electrical power provided - and you will likely see the LEAP getting the leg up by just a little everywhere. But both designs are so efficient that you are going to have to look at everything to see much difference.
                            Last edited by XB-70; 17th December 2018, 18:41.

                            Comment

                            • JSR
                              JSR
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 4950

                              The cost and technical advantage of Russia aviation industry so huge that small differences in product operational efficiency not matter.
                              you can add C929 and further modification of Superjets.
                              Introduced EASA pilot so early in programme.


                              http://aerocomposit.ru/ispytateli-easa-vypolnili-polety-br-na-samolete-ms-21-300/
                              EASA testers have completed flights
                              on aircraft Ms-21-300

                              IL-96M will cost $120m even with low production rate.

                              http://tass.com/economy/1036287

                              Prototype of Russias new wide-body airliner to cost over $150 mln

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6463

                                PD-35 is a scaled up, evolved version of the core. They are upscaling the PD-14 design and adding in some new technologies such as CMCs and a carbon fiber epoxy fan. It's not a "from the ground up" new design. PD-10 likely will not happen, at least not any time soon. The Russian aerospace engine industry has a full plate with continued PD-14 teething support (if needed), and then Izdeliye 30, NK-32 series 2, PD-12V, PD-35, etc. development.

                                Bypass ratio is not as closely correlated with fuel efficiency as you suppose. You have three main sections in a turbofan - the fan, the compressor, and the turbine. (You got to take the different characteristics of the HP and LP sections of the turbine and compressor too.) Each of these have their individual "ideal" point for rotational speed to yield maximum efficiency. Trouble is, you got only one main shaft that they are all coupled to. You can divide this into two or three spools to provide for a little bit of optimization between them, but not much. (Unless if you put a hefty gear mechanism between the fan and the compressor, because the fan has the largest difference in optimum rotational speed).

                                So, to make use of a larger diameter fan - a greater bypass ratio - you need to design a compressor and turbine that can operate with a slower rotational speed. In practice, you might lose a little bit of efficiency in the turbine and compressor. Taken together, you generally still see a slight gain. Try to compare all factors (if you can find them) - fuel consumption, noise emissions, NOX emissions, and electrical power provided - and you will likely see the LEAP getting the leg up by just a little everywhere. But both designs are so efficient that you are going to have to look at everything to see much difference.
                                Thanks XB-70

                                I read they will make PD-10/9 for SSJ-100R replacing SaM 146 with it , The French Hot Parts of SaM146 is facing reliability issue as well. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...estern-content

                                The Thales-integrated avionics package would give way to one from local manufacturer KRET. The airplanes PowerJet SaM.146 engines would be replaced by the Aviadvigatel PD-9, effectively a scaled version of the PD-14 developed for the Irkut MC-21 narrowbody jetliner. Apart from indigenization, this, coupled with a new composite wing, would reduce fuel burn by between 5 percent and 8 percent.
                                So the fuel consumption between PD-14 and LEAP would be minimal at worst and equal at best.

                                What is the growth path for current PD-14 in the sense how can they improve fuel effeciency of PD-14 and make it competetive for next 20-30 years of its operation , Currently they claim 15 % over PS-90 series for fuel effeciency can they increase it to 20 % or more in its life cycle ? Thanks
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • Austin
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Oct 2003
                                  • 6463

                                  IL-96M will cost $120m even with low production rate.

                                  http://tass.com/economy/1036287

                                  Prototype of Russias new wide-body airliner to cost over $150 mln
                                  Production cost would be around $70-80 million , Out of the $150 million half of that money is spent on design documentation new systems etc.

                                  I think with IL-96-400M they will develop new cockpit more use of Wide Angle LCD more Glass cockpit keeping 3 man crew ( not sure if they may go for 2 man crew as they have tested this on Tu-204SM )

                                  Plus the engine is not the PS-90A1 but more advanced variant called PS-90A3M

                                  In the IL-96-400M will be installed upgraded engines PS-90A3M

                                  http://perm.rbc.ru/perm/freenews/58b...794707befa8af4

                                  Perm "Aircraft Engine" will upgrade the PS-90A1 engines for wide-body long-haul aircraft IL-96-400M. This Perm RBC said the head of the enterprise Alexander Inozemtsev.

                                  Passenger ship will be based on IL-96-400T cargo. Its production will Voronezh aircraft factory. Remodeled board must be powered by four turbofan engines PS-90A3M, maximum take-off mass must not be less than 270 tons and range with a payload of 41 tonnes - at least 9 thousand. Km. These characteristics allow the new car to become a cruise on a par with foreign "shirokofyuzelyazhnikami". Currently Permian aircraft designers are working on the feasibility study of this project.

                                  "The President has set a task to make a batch of 6-10 aircraft and begin their operation in Russia. By the time when there will be PD-35, the aircraft is expected reentine a twin-engine variant. This happens in about 10-15 years ", - said the managing director-general designer of JSC" UEC-AVIADVIGATEL "A. Inozemtsev

                                  Last autumn edition of "Vedomosti" reported that the KLA is planning to raise in the sky the first prototype passenger IL-96-400M in 2019. to modernize the program will cost about 53 billion rubles, of which a little less than 10 billion will be spent on development work. In addition, it was reported that the aircraft will be used for government agencies, first of all, for the "Russian" special flight detachment.
                                  PS-90A3u, PS-90A3u1, PS-90A3u-76 turbofans

                                  http://www.pmz.ru/eng/advanced-devel...ps-90a/PSA3u_/





                                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                  Comment

                                  • JSR
                                    JSR
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2011
                                    • 4950

                                    It is not just developing product but creating firms like Aeroflot-Volga-Dnepr and UTair to support it. and transport helicopter share engine and components with attack helicopter.

                                    https://heli.utair.ru/en/informatsiy...n-of-mi-171a2/
                                    UTair is Authorized for Commercial Operation of Mi-171A2

                                    "Mi-171A2 is a fundamentally new helicopter. We saw value in the innovations implemented in it: digital complex of aircraft equipment, new more powerful engines, efficient lifting system with composite blades and X-type tail rotor. These and other technical solutions have not only influenced performance of the aircraft in the best possible way, but also reduced the load on the crew", stressed Dmitriy Streltsov, Vice-President - Flight Director of UTair - Helicopter Services.

                                    Comment

                                    • Dr.Snufflebug
                                      Boggleboople snufflebug
                                      • Aug 2012
                                      • 521

                                      Funny. I was going through various old documents/presentations from the Russian Academy of Science, and found the MiG-31+Kinzhal being referenced in 2016. So that "surprise" this spring really wasn't much of one.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • Austin
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2003
                                        • 6463

                                        AirInsight publishes MC-21 Report

                                        https://airinsight.com/airinsight-pu...-mc-21-report/


                                        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6463

                                          How is that MC-21-300 Maximum Payload at 49.8 T is higher than Max8/9 ,A320/321 NEO but its fuel capacity is lower than others ?

                                          Have they traded payload for fuel capacity and what would be the reason for this ?
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                          Comment

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