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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Marcellogo
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2014
    • 1840

    Yes, it make no sense to install actual Nk-32 if Nk-32-02 are not ready, it would mean to make he same certification work two times.

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6506

      From what I understand the engine is the same but they are using the core from Nk-32 making the existing more fuel efficient.
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6506

        this write up has more details

        Upgraded 'Backfire' Rolled Out at Kazan

        https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...lled-out-kazan
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

        Comment

        • Levsha
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2006
          • 2856

          From what I understand the engine is the same but they are using the core from Nk-32 making the existing more fuel efficient.
          That doesn't sound feasible. The Tu-22M3M is fitted with the same NK-25 engine, except that they have been fitted with electronic engine controls 'FADEC' systems. It will be a long time before any Tu-160 or Tu-22M will be fitted with new NK-32-2 motors.

          Comment

          • wilhelm
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2004
            • 1658

            Mention is made of increased range.
            The new FADEC would obviously contribute to that.
            However, the fairing above the nose is intriguing.
            If you look at the original long permanantly fixed refuelling probe on the Tu-22m that was subsequently removed, and decided to fit a retractable refuelling probe to marry up with where assumedly existing refuelling piping previously existed (slightly above/behind radar), that fairing corresponds exactly to that position.

            This is almost the most interesting feature so far, pending any potential engine changes, as any modernisation would have looked at avionics changes anyway, IMHO.
            I wonder if the mention of FADEC means confirmation it will now stick with the original engines...as there would be no point doing this if the engines were to be replaced?
            Last edited by wilhelm; 18th August 2018, 09:57.

            Comment

            • haavarla
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2008
              • 6715

              We know they did a complete overhaul on those NK-25's
              What they could have done is increased the front Fan stages diameter, like they did on AL-31FM1, Idz 117 etc, for increased thrust performance.

              Regarding the refueling probe, i think Russia want to pull the few remaining Tu-22M3M out of any START treaty, hence they now added the refueling probe again.
              Thanks

              Comment

              • Levsha
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2006
                • 2856

                This is almost the most interesting feature so far, pending any potential engine changes, as any modernisation would have looked at avionics changes anyway, IMHO.
                I wonder if the mention of FADEC means confirmation it will now stick with the original engines...as there would be no point doing this if the engines were to be replaced?
                People seem to forget just how difficult it is to re-initiate production of a jet engine, especially a beast such as the NK-32. It would be like asking GE to restart production of the J75 or RR to resume Olympus production - it would barely be possible, and even if it was it would be hideously expensive. I have read though, that the new NK-32-2s are undergoing bench tests at the moment, but I have also read that the new production of the NK-32 is turning out to be difficult because many of the components were originally in Soviet times produced in Ukraine and Azerbaijan, a political problem today.

                Comment

                • Levsha
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 2856

                  What they could have done is increased the front Fan stages diameter, like they did on AL-31FM1, Idz 117 etc, for increased thrust performance.
                  Have you a source for that? Doesn't sound likely.

                  Comment

                  • paralay
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Aug 2005
                    • 1418

                    The engine NK-32-02 was developed in 1987, but its production was not carried out because of problems with financing. Modernization of NK-32-02 touched the compressor and turbine blades, internal aerodynamics, and also improved internal cooling. As a result, the consumption of kerosene decreased, and the take-off thrust of 25 tons remained unchanged. The Tupolev design bureau says that in tests with new engines and basic load (six cruise missiles, that is, a mass of nine tons), the Tu-160 can overcome 13950 km, that is, 1650 km more than the standard version. Now the engine for the Tu-160M2 is designated as NK-32-02M2

                    Comment

                    • LMFS
                      Rank 4 Registered User
                      • Feb 2018
                      • 562

                      Have they been already tested on the Tu-160? I heard they were on test this year and the first units were to be delivered to Tupolev before end of the year

                      Comment

                      • Austin
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2003
                        • 6506

                        Russian military will buy more than 35 Su-30SM fighters for 70 billion rubles

                        https://www.aex.ru/news/2018/8/17/187330/

                        August 17, 2018, AEX.RU - At the end of 2018, the Russian Ministry of Defense can purchase at least 36 Su-30SM multifunctional fighters for the Air and Space Forces and Aviation of the Navy of the Irkutsk Aircraft Plant (IAZ, part of the controlled by the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Irkut Corporation), the source in the aircraft industry told Vedomosti and confirmed the man close to the Defense Ministry.

                        According to him, the contract value will be about 70 billion rubles. On Tuesday, in an interview with Vedomosti, UAC President Yury Slyusar said that the contract for fighter of this type planned for signing in 2018 "will ensure the loading of the IAZ in the coming years at the level of 12-14 cars per year". In addition, according to Slyusar, the Su-30 has good export prospects: "The aircraft are sold in a large number of countries and, we hope, will be sold more."

                        In total, since 2012, the Ministry of Defense has contracted 116 Su-30SM fighters based on the Su-30MKI fighter developed for India. 88 vehicles were ordered for VKS and 28 for naval aviation of the Navy, and their deliveries under existing contracts would be completed in 2018. In addition to India, such vehicles were also exported to Malaysia, Algeria, Kazakhstan, and in the future, these aircraft can be delivered to Myanmar and Belarus.

                        In August 2017, it was reported that the production of Su-30SM by 2022 will be practically completed, after which IAZ will develop the production of passenger airliners МС-21, but to load the plant until 2020, the UAC needs an order for 100 vehicles, including 50 - for export. Taking into account the planned contract with the Defense Ministry this year, as well as possible supplies to Kazakhstan, Myanmar and Belarus, the amount of 100 cars is not recruited, but in general, there may be enough orders to maintain production until 2022, suggests a source close to the Ministry of Defense.
                        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                        Comment

                        • panzerfeist1
                          Rank 6 Registered User
                          • Feb 2018
                          • 415

                          Click image for larger version

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                          This was the L-265M10-02 Khibiny-M EW shown at the Maks airshow. Heard that this EW has had similar claims of masking other aircraft(besides masking themselves in EW) like the brand new Tarantula EW that was to put be on the modernized SU-34s by 2020. Himalayas operational by 2019, Tarantula operational by 2020. L-175M EW system use to be on the SU-35 than got replaced with the L-265M. Rostec in 2014 mentioned GaN MMICs for Himalayas, Tarantula and Khlibiny-M. However the only articles and news references I have found only introduced the idea of L-265M in 2017.

                          http://www.airrecognition.com/index....maks-2017.html

                          "We are showing the Khibiny-M system onboard a Sukhoi Su-35 [NATO reporting name: Flanker-E+] plane for the first time here. Just one year ago, the system completed its state trials. We are delivering it to the Russian Armed Forces and foreign countries where it is in great demand," adviser to the KRET first deputy CEO Vladimir Mikheyev said at a press conference during the MAKS 2017 airshow."

                          http://www.armstrade.org/includes/pe...0/detail.shtml

                          "Aviation units continue to receive advanced systems of electronic warfare "Khibiny". Continue like as in they already had it in their units but they need more. Also the state trials were done a year ago so the New Khibiny instead of the old one was tested somewhere in 2016. GaN mmics being introduced in 2014 for these new systems(khlibiny-m,himalayas, tarantula), new khlibiny mentioned at 2017 and continue to receive new khlibiny means they already have the system in the aircraft. I still believe that the Himalayas was upgraded with these mmics when it was mounted in 2014 because of more high priority than a SU-35.

                          Is it now more than likely safe to assume the SU-35 has GaN mmics according to these finds? Anyways this is good info that was probably not mentioned in this forum before. But if there are people that want to believe the L-175 has similar mmics to the L-265 even though this system also has the same ability of masking other aircrafts as the Tarantula system which was not present before in their old EW systems, GaN MMICs introduced for new khibiny-M in 2014, was introduced to pass state trials in 2016 with new system, is present in their aircrafts according to 2017 sources(only time frame the new system was introduced), let me know? I remember this topic before made it look like I was poking a beehive with a stick on the SU-57 thread, but tell me if this presented information is better in confirming that the SU-57 is to highly likely have GaN MMICs like the SU-35?
                          I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                          Comment

                          • JSR
                            JSR
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 4982

                            People seem to forget just how difficult it is to re-initiate production of a jet engine, especially a beast such as the NK-32. It would be like asking GE to restart production of the J75 or RR to resume Olympus production - it would barely be possible, and even if it was it would be hideously expensive. I have read though, that the new NK-32-2s are undergoing bench tests at the moment, but I have also read that the new production of the NK-32 is turning out to be difficult because many of the components were originally in Soviet times produced in Ukraine and Azerbaijan, a political problem today.
                            so how Russia produced even more advanced version of helicopter engines which in soviet times assembled in Ukraine?.
                            there are more takeoffs and landing in heli engines than on long range bomber
                            https://www.uecrus.com/rus/presscent...LEMENT_ID=2911
                            The VK-2500 PS-03 is the latest engine modifications VK-2500 with improved performance characteristics. It uses the most modern Russian digital electronic control system and feedback control of the type FADEC. Implemented protivopompazhnaja protection, eliminating the possibility of engine failure due to powerful streams of air, reducing atmospheric pressure hot Alpine climate, strong Crosswinds during takeoff, etc.
                            Now in JDC-Klimov are developing promising engine VK-2500 m. The VK-2500 turboshaft engine m is a deep technological modification of certified engine with turbovalnogo serial free turbine VK-2500. Features engine VK-2500 m will be increased power with reduced weight, modular design, ability to use on a technical condition, without undermining the full interchangeability with serial VK-2500 engines and tv 3-117, that would modernize the existing fleet of helicopters Мi and Ка and give the aircraft significantly new performance. Variability of the layout (the ability to output shaft power forwards or backwards) will extend the scope of the VK-2500 m. In addition. JDC specialists are developing new Klimov engine modifications VK-2500 PS-02 for helicopter Ka-32.

                            you seem to forget Russia is not Germany. pay attention to diversified complex scientific potential. there are a lot of other examples like digitally creating IL-476 and putting the largest AESA antenna on it along with big wingtip pods. or even engines for Yak-130.

                            Comment

                            • MadRat
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 5032

                              The NK-25 and NK-32 were similar, probably variations from the same family tree. It made sense to move Tu-22M3 to NK-32 and standardize around a common core. They could have just as easily adapted an attack plane around one NK-32 to boost usage across the military. It's probably adaptable for a maritime role, too. The genius around the F100-family was its adaption to so many uses. The Russians have no such common lineage.
                              Go Huskers!

                              Comment

                              • paralay
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Aug 2005
                                • 1418

                                AL-31F is suitable for such a role (Light fighter J-10, heavy fighter Su-27, Su-30, front-line bomber Su-34)
                                The mandatory requirement for Russian aircraft is "take-off and landing on a ground airfield". Perhaps that's why the Tu-160 special engine 4 x 25000 kgf, and not 4 x 12500 kgs.
                                Last edited by paralay; 20th August 2018, 15:02.

                                Comment

                                • haavarla
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6715

                                  paralay, i think we talked about the T-22M, not Tu-160. But you are right, the Idz 117 would be too small for Tu-22M

                                  In Madrats p.o.v, its smarter to rebuild an entire airframe so that you can fit some smaller engines to it, than stick with the larger intended engines and call it the day..

                                  PS. How is the F-100 family of engines coming along for the B-52?
                                  Last edited by haavarla; 20th August 2018, 19:37.
                                  Thanks

                                  Comment

                                  • panzerfeist1
                                    Rank 6 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2018
                                    • 415

                                    "The coating can reflect color changes and imitate complex graphical depictions, up to the leaves wavering in the wind, Rostec CEO Sergei Chemezov said"

                                    More:
                                    http://tass.com/defense/1017840

                                    Just more confirmation that the helmet is going to be displayed. Chemezov said, "invisible to the naked eye" than said "like a chameleon" Which can still be possibly seen by the naked eye." but by this up to date statement, instead of Harry Potter's invisible cloak its more of a I change color to my environment like a chameleon helmet. I am guessing that there might be a possibility that even UAVs can possibly be equipped with this along with their other equipment to make visibility difficult for their enemies. But still noteworthy to mention where they possibly stand in developing stealth material.
                                    I thought the fall of western civilization was a tragedy, now I realize it's a comedy.

                                    Comment

                                    • Austin
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2003
                                      • 6506

                                      Russia began work on creating a vertical takeoff plane, it can take up to 10 years - Deputy Prime Minister Borisov
                                      08/21/2018 13:31:00

                                      http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=488563
                                      Kubinka (Moscow region). 21 August. INTERFAX-AVN - The work on creating a vertical takeoff plane began in Russia in 2017, Deputy Prime Minister Yury Borisov told reporters.
                                      "This work is really included in the State Arms Program, it is being conducted on behalf of the Supreme Commander." Work is now under way to develop conceptual models and prototypes, "Yuri Borisov said at the Army 2018 forum.

                                      "Conceptually, such work has already been carried out in the Defense Ministry since last year, the timing is determined by the technological cycle of creation, as a rule, this is 7-10 years, if we go into series." This is a new aircraft, "the Deputy Prime Minister said.

                                      He called such a technique the future of carrier aviation. "A new fleet of aircraft will be needed for all aircraft carriers, which is why various technologies are used that make it possible to provide shortened takeoffs and landings or simply vertical take-off," Borisov said.

                                      In December 2017, Sergey Korotkov, General Designer and Vice President for Innovation of the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), told Interfax that the corporation has a scientific and technological basis for equipping prospective aircraft carriers with vertical take-off aircraft.

                                      "Indeed, such conversations are underway (about plans for the creation of vertical take-off aircraft - IF) .We still had good groundwork in Soviet times, I believe that these developments of Yakovlev's OKB are even now quite advanced. the corresponding order from the side of the Ministry of Defense, "- said S. Korotkov.

                                      He recalled that the design bureau them. Yakovlev developed prototypes of such aircraft and began their flight tests, but these works were suspended in the 1990s.
                                      "But these technologies for vertical takeoff are unique and are still of interest from the point of view of their application," the general designer believes.

                                      At the same time, he stressed that if the RF Defense Ministry orders to develop vertical take-off aircraft to equip prospective aircraft carriers, it will be necessary to conduct these works taking into account today's realities, since "something done in the past becomes mediocre today, eventually loses its relevance".

                                      "But everything depends on the doctrine of the Defense Ministry: if they see the need and need for this (the development of new aircraft for aircraft carriers - IF), then such a task will be put," said S. Korotkov.

                                      In August, during the forum "Army-2017" Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov announced plans of the department in the region of 2025 to begin construction of a new aircraft carrier and the creation of an aircraft for him, possibly with a short take-off or vertical take-off.

                                      At the end of November, he confirmed that the new state armament program (SPP) for 2018-2027 involves the development and laying of modern aircraft carriers.

                                      "Speaking specifically about aircraft-carrying cruisers, this is the end of the program, we plan to develop and lay down modern aircraft carriers," Borisov told journalists.
                                      He said that the project of the GPO laid down the work on creating a vertical takeoff aircraft to equip the new aircraft carriers.

                                      "It would be logical to assume that during that time those models, meaning the MiG-29 and Su-33, will morally become obsolete, and in 10 years, of course, the creation of a new aircraft will be required. or from a vertical take-off, "said Yury Borisov, answering the question whether work is being done to create a vertical takeoff aircraft for aircraft carriers.

                                      The Yakovlev Design Bureau is the only Russian aircraft designer who has experience in developing vertical takeoff and landing aircraft. Since the mid-1970s, the design bureau has been developing a multi-purpose supersonic all-weather decked aircraft for vertical / short takeoff and landing Yak-141. He made the first flight in 1987, and in 1991 for the first time landed on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

                                      Yak-141 was designed to provide cover for carrier-based communications from enemy aircraft, to gain and retain air supremacy, to conduct near maneuver and ranged combat, and to strike ground and surface targets.

                                      On the official website of the OKB im. Yakovlev noted that the aircraft Yak-141 "far ahead of its time." It also reports that "the government's decision to stop the development program for this aircraft in 1992 was taken at the height of its flight tests." After the termination of tests the Yak-141 was first demonstrated at the Farnborough air show in 1992.
                                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                      Comment

                                      • ClanWarrior
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2007
                                        • 306

                                        Let's see if they succeed this time where they failed with the Yak-141.

                                        Comment

                                        • paralay
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2005
                                          • 1418

                                          The country failed, Yak-141 turned out as it should

                                          Comment

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