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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • St. John
    Rank 4 Registered User
    • Jan 2018
    • 568

    I would say some missiles probably didn't make it but 76 shot down is a whopping lie. I haven't seen evidence of anywhere near than many being shot down and how many cruise missile parts get left over after an actual hit? When a plane crashes, usually the parts of the jet engine remain intact, the engine is at the rear of cruise missiles and missiles like the Storm Shadow/SCALP BROACH warhead explode forwards.



    So how many of these parts are actually from hits and how many parts aren't even cruise missile parts at all? Where are all the crash sites? Where is the footage of cruise missiles being intercepted at low altitude? What is the size/scale of these sites? That research establishments looks to be about a quarter mile wide based on lorry size in some shots.




    In the Raptor strike video in Syria, we also saw two munitions put down one hole and many of these targets were underground.
    Last edited by St. John; 28th April 2018, 12:32.

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    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6506

      The Strike and Intercept would remain in the realms of claims and counter claims , no one has seen videos of 104 missile strikes on targets much like no one has seen of evidence of 76 getting shot down, both sides will stick to their claims and both will have something to take away from this and work upon.
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • FBW
        FBW
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2011
        • 3294

        BDA is not very useful in this case either. The missiles were programmed to strike in rapid sucession to incinerate any toxins present at those three sites. The large number of missiles striking a small target is the veritable making rubble bounce.

        One, none, 76 shot down....I dont think there is any chance of detailed analysis to accurately assess the success/failure of the Syria defense. All of this was shaping the message. US strikes three sites claimed to be chemical weapons related as a message. Russia makes noise, though they were probably in contact with US forces the whole time on targets, time, size of response. Syria claims success in intercepting cruise missiles. All white noise.

        Comment

        • St. John
          Rank 4 Registered User
          • Jan 2018
          • 568

          At the end of the day 3 targets targeted, 3 targets rubble. Objective achieved.

          Comment

          • St. John
            Rank 4 Registered User
            • Jan 2018
            • 568

            Then you have the claims surrounding the airbases targeted. Dozens of missiles claimed shot down and none hit. So in a year, the Syrian air defences have suddenly gone from 3rd world crap, to the most unbelievably efficient air defences on the planet. Hmmm... don't buy it. I also suspect the ground would be littered with Israeli jets if that were the case.

            Comment

            • haavarla
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2008
              • 6715

              Like other already have posted. We will never know for sure.
              But we will also never know if Russia actually did use their own Anti-Air missiles with the SAA own units. Russia claimed they did not use their own..

              One thing would be uncontested.
              From last year, Russia has improved the Radar coverage A2D over Syria and the SAA Anti-Air is connected to their network,
              with SAA received many Pantsir S1 units,
              its a good and fair chance many more Tomahawks were intercepted this time vs last year attack by US.
              Last edited by haavarla; 28th April 2018, 13:21.
              Thanks

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              • medo
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2010
                • 326

                Those three objects in Barzeh were relatively small and definitively were not hit by 70+ missiles. All in all, there were still only between 10 and 20 missile hits on targets from 105 launched. For sure operational Syrian AF air bases were better protected with Buk-M2 and Pantsir and they have no problem to shot down all missiles flying against bases. Those empty unused objects were not that well defended and the missiles were engaged by city of Damascus air defense, which is mostly equipped with older but modernized complexes. Russia rebuild and modernize Syrian air defense and create modern IADS, where all complexes work in common network also they liberate more and more territory around city, that they could spread air defense network to become more effective. Also Syrian AD crews are every day better trained and have better skills and this year they are far more effective than last year. This year they already shot down israeli missiles and 1 israeli F-16I. Shoting down 70+ missiles is not such a surprise, specially in areas protected by Buk-M2 and Pantsir, where every TELAR could engage 4 targets simultaneusly and are designed to counter massive attack.

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                • stealthflanker
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 1027

                  keep it civil guys, please.

                  Comment

                  • Levsha
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2006
                    • 2856

                    Those three objects in Barzeh were relatively small and definitively were not hit by 70+ missiles.
                    They were not relatively small buildings - it was huge complex made from reinforced concrete several stories tall. It would certainly take several dozens of strikes to reduce three 6-storey concrete monoliths to pulverised ground-level high ruins. Look at the size of the buildings compared to the vehicles parked in front.

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                    Last edited by Levsha; 28th April 2018, 14:50.

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                    • JSR
                      JSR
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Aug 2011
                      • 4982


                      At the end of the day 3 targets targeted, 3 targets rubble. Objective achieved.
                      it started with 22 targets, than 8 and finally 3. you only declare what is hit.
                      https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trum...irly-soon.html

                      Comment

                      • Levsha
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2006
                        • 2856

                        it started with 22 targets, than 8 and finally 3. you only declare what is hit.
                        https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/12/trum...irly-soon.html
                        Quick reply to this message Reply
                        But in the end only 3 locations were targeted - and successfullly destroyed.

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                        • JSR
                          JSR
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 4982

                          that what got hit and declared with available missiles. intention was always bigger but some targets more heavy defended than those buildings.

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                          • St. John
                            Rank 4 Registered User
                            • Jan 2018
                            • 568

                            So 3 targets got hit with many many missiles and other targets somehow blocked every missile. Hmm... If this were really the case, it would render all AShMs obsolete, since a destroyer or missile cruiser and fleet are infinitely better protected and have a clearer line of sight than any of Syria's land targets.

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                            • TR1
                              TR1
                              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 9826

                              Khmeymim defenses:







                              Su-35S with R-77-1:





                              Dumb bombs:





                              Su-34 with Kab-1500:



                              Kh-35U:







                              A-50s:

                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • haavarla
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 6715

                                So 3 targets got hit with many many missiles and other targets somehow blocked every missile. Hmm... If this were really the case, it would render all AShMs obsolete, since a destroyer or missile cruiser and fleet are infinitely better protected and have a clearer line of sight than any of Syria's land targets.
                                Well it was bound to happen sooner or later. When you decide to shot at someone that actually can shot back.
                                Burst of bubble..
                                Thanks

                                Comment

                                • FBW
                                  FBW
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2011
                                  • 3294

                                  Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                                  Well it was bound to happen sooner or later. When you decide to shot at someone that actually can shot back.
                                  Burst of bubble..

                                  Annddd if it werent for ignorant comments like that above that are devoid of fact, threads probably wouldnt degenerate into chest thumping stupidity and get erased.

                                  Comment

                                  • medo
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2010
                                    • 326

                                    They were not relatively small buildings - it was huge complex made from reinforced concrete several stories tall. It would certainly take several dozens of strikes to reduce three 6-storey concrete monoliths to pulverised ground-level high ruins. Look at the size of the buildings compared to the vehicles parked in front.
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                                    The six floor building is still intact and in satelitte pictire it have far longer shadow, than objects, which were hit and they have three flors at best. They are not reinforced concrete buildings, but usual buildings with concrete sceleton and filled with lighter material. It could be seen, that upper flors simply fall down, when those weak concrete pylons were destroyed in explosion. They are not heavy fortified objects and there were not 70+ missiles hits. This damage is done by few missiles.
                                    Last edited by medo; 28th April 2018, 21:16.

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                                    • St. John
                                      Rank 4 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2018
                                      • 568

                                      You call that still intact? If that building is still intact then so is Joan Collins's virginity.

                                      And you can see the reinforcement wires hanging off the left side.

                                      Comment

                                      • haavarla
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2008
                                        • 6715

                                        For crying out Loud. Its rebar Iron, which is used in 99,999% of every building in the world that is made of concrete. Concrete in it self is easy to crack without any rebar inside.
                                        Last edited by haavarla; 28th April 2018, 22:46.
                                        Thanks

                                        Comment

                                        • St. John
                                          Rank 4 Registered User
                                          • Jan 2018
                                          • 568

                                          I think it's indisputable that this building has been hit by 4 1,000lb bombs and still looks more intact than anything on that large site. Now picture a dozen of these buildings all turned to rubble. How many missiles required?

                                          Last edited by St. John; 28th April 2018, 22:51.

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