Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RuAF News and development Thread part 15

Collapse
X
Collapse
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (0 members and 5 guests)
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6506

    Here’s why the MiG-29 could defeat the best western fighters in close air combat, despite its limitations
    As Koeck recalls “Inside ten nautical miles I’m hard to defeat, and with the IRST, helmet sight and ‘Archer’ (which is the NATO designation for the R-73 missile) I can’t be beaten. Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’ (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!”

    Moreover with a 28 deg/sec instantaneous turn rate (compared to the Block 50 F-16’s 26 deg) the MiG-29 could out-turn them: in fact the Fulcrum retained an edge over its adversaries thanks to its unmatched agility which was reached combining an advanced aerodynamics with an old-fashioned mechanical control system.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment

    • Flanker_man
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 3681

      (to be said in a Michael Cain voice....) Not a lot of people know this......... but the variable geometry wings on the Tu-160 White Swan are the largest moving surfaces ever used on an aircraft.

      The previous record holder was the North American XB-70 with its folding wingtips.

      Just a bit of trivia.

      Ken
      Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
      Flankers (& others) website at :-
      http://flankers.co.uk/

      Comment

      • MSphere
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 8983

        Just the bolted construction of the pivot box lets one think there is something BIG going on.. looks like sold titanium if you ask me..

        Comment

        • Berkut
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2011
          • 2216

          Do we know for sure that yellow frame is one of the unfinished ones? Not entirely convinced myself, thinking it might be a stripped one they are modernizing.

          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
          Just the bolted construction of the pivot box lets one think there is something BIG going on.. looks like sold titanium if you ask me..
          It is discussed on this page.

          Comment

          • Nicolas10
            Senior Member
            • May 2005
            • 4523

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLJaggNIfE0

            Nice PAK-DA concept on the second part of this video.

            Nic

            Comment

            • TR1
              TR1
              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
              • Oct 2010
              • 9826

              Originally posted by Berkut View Post
              Do we know for sure that yellow frame is one of the unfinished ones? Not entirely convinced myself, thinking it might be a stripped one they are modernizing.
              I'd bet 100% it is just a stripped one. It has been there for a bit in earlier pics, no way they had an unfinished frame just sitting in the middle of the work line.
              sigpic

              Comment

              • Y-20 Bacon
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2013
                • 2176

                Originally posted by Austin View Post
                Russian Kamov Ka-52 'Alligator' Sees Combat Debut in Syria

                https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...at-debut-syria
                Take this witha grain of pepper
                but Bulgarian defense sites claim that the Russians are more impressed with the Kamov's performance over the Mi-28 so far in Syria

                Comment

                • JSR
                  JSR
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 4982

                  from the looks. Mi-28 seems to me better armoured protected. i will use it in close combat environment like in city. while Ka-50 more sutiable for desert and mountain for hitting transport or antiship/anti air against UAVs. every one has now UAV.

                  Comment

                  • Marcellogo
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2014
                    • 1840

                    They are supposed working on pair, one as a classical AT assault helicopter the other as a scout/ reconnoissance .
                    Fact is that Ka-52 is something that far exceed capabilities of all others used until now in such a role and can replicate the most of performances of the same mi-28 in attack role, while the other doesn't apply.
                    It means it would eventually supersede it? It would depend about a lot of consideration but it seems me not likely to happen, almost in the RuAF.
                    Unless the Ka-52 would prove itself considerably less costly to buy and above all to operate than Mi-28NM there is not any need for it, it would be better instead to raise up itsproduction of it in order to operate with Mi-24 also or as an escort for transport helos.

                    Comment

                    • Scar
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2015
                      • 682

                      Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post
                      They are supposed working on pair, one as a classical AT assault helicopter the other as a scout/ reconnoissance .
                      Well...that's a myth that came from the mid-1990's when Mikheev(chief-designer of Kamov-bureau and Ka-50/52) was forced to admit that single-seat Ka-50 isn't effective because of incredible workload on a single pilot. That's how two-seat Ka-52 was born.

                      Comment

                      • Flanker_man
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 3681

                        I can remember reading that the Ka-50 WON the competition for the Russian Army attack helicopter - way back in the early 90's.

                        It also showed itself superior during exercises in the Russias far east - when, not invited to compete, Kamov shipped out a Ka-50 at their own expense - and it beat the Mi-28 hands down (or at least greatly impressed the military).

                        Then it was suddenly announced that the Mi-28 was going to be procured - instead of the Ka-50 !!

                        As Scar mentions - the single pilot workload of the Ka-50 mitigated against it - but another deciding factor was reported at the time.

                        This was the difficulty of transporting the Ka-50 in an Il-76 - due to it's tall rotor mast - which made it difficult to strip down for loading into the Il-76.

                        The Mi-28 was better in this respect - more easily transported.

                        I'm no expert on these matters - just going by what I read in magazines like Air Fleet and Takeoff.

                        Ken
                        Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
                        Flankers (& others) website at :-
                        http://flankers.co.uk/

                        Comment

                        • Scar
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2015
                          • 682

                          Originally posted by Flanker_man View Post
                          I can remember reading that the Ka-50 WON the competition for the Russian Army attack helicopter - way back in the early 90's.
                          Yes, it won, despite it lost the trail where both competiting choppers should find all targets on the battlefield. According to ex-head of Russian Army Aviation Combat Training Department, Alexander Railyan, Ka-50's pilot managaed to find only two targets out of 25, while Mi-28's crew found all of them.

                          Funny, but NASA's experiment, during LHX program, supported this Railyan's claim.

                          It also showed itself superior during exercises in the Russias far east - when, not invited to compete, Kamov shipped out a Ka-50 at their own expense - and it beat the Mi-28 hands down (or at least greatly impressed the military).
                          Never heard of that. Where did you read this?

                          Then it was suddenly announced that the Mi-28 was going to be procured - instead of the Ka-50 !!
                          It wasn't suddenly. Head of the Army Aviation dreamed about "Su-25" just in the form of helicopter. But reality was that single-seat helicopter flying at extreme low-altitude over battlefield took too much of attention of its pilot to simply do the combat task and keep acceptable situation-awareness.

                          As Scar mentions - the single pilot workload of the Ka-50 mitigated against it - but another deciding factor was reported at the time.

                          This was the difficulty of transporting the Ka-50 in an Il-76 - due to it's tall rotor mast - which made it difficult to strip down for loading into the Il-76.
                          Never heard of that, as well.
                          Last edited by Scar; 11th April 2016, 11:13.

                          Comment

                          • Marcellogo
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jun 2014
                            • 1840

                            Yes, problem was that it was not possible to convert the ka-50 into a classic tandem cockpit for problem of balance and that going twin-seat as it was the chosen solution implied to reduce its protection level, hence the initial preference for Mi-28.

                            Probably it was better so: Mi-28 can fit well its intended role, while Ka-52 add a new array of possibilities to the armed force as a whole.
                            Last edited by Marcellogo; 11th April 2016, 12:20.

                            Comment

                            • Scar
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 682

                              Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post
                              Yes, problem was that it was not possible to convert the ka-50 into a classic tandem cockpit for problem of balance and that going twin-seat as it was the chosen solution implied to reduce its protection level, hence the initial preference for Mi-28.
                              Well, Kamov proposed its Ka-50-2 "Erdogan"(funny name, yeah?))) to Turkey in 1990's. Of course it was a glass cannon(i mean, canopy) but still - there was a tandem variant in the Kamov's pipe.



                              Probably it was better so: Mi-28 can fit well its intended role, while Ka-52 add a new array of possibilities to the armed force as a whole.
                              We will see when Mil' will introduce its Mi-28NM.

                              Comment

                              • Flanker_man
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2000
                                • 3681

                                The Turkish President is currently Recep Erdogan - it means 'Brave, Warrior Hawk'

                                Kamov re-worked the single-seat Ka-50 to produce the tandem two-seat Ka-50-2 'Erdogan' that would be licence-built in Turkey by TAI.
                                The helicopter incorporated avionics produced by the Israeli firm of IAI.

                                More here.

                                The mockup was on display at MAKS 2003 - where I took these photos.....





                                The Ka-50-2 lost out in the Turkish competition to the Bell AH-1Z(?) Cobra IIRC.

                                Ken
                                Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
                                Flankers (& others) website at :-
                                http://flankers.co.uk/

                                Comment

                                • Flanker_man
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 3681

                                  Scar wrote :- Never heard of that. Where did you read this?
                                  In Air Fleet IIRC - or maybe Takeoff magazine - its so long ago I can't be sure - but I remember the story.

                                  Same with the rotor mast thing - probably Yefim Gordon - (yes, I know...) - but it makes sense.

                                  Ken
                                  Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
                                  Flankers (& others) website at :-
                                  http://flankers.co.uk/

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                    Never heard of that. Where did you read this?.
                                    I have read the same.. Kamov has shipped two Ka-50s and two improved Ka-29s at their own expense to war in Chechnya, as well..

                                    Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                    It wasn't suddenly. Head of the Army Aviation dreamed about "Su-25" just in the form of helicopter. But reality was that single-seat helicopter flying at extreme low-altitude over battlefield took too much of attention of its pilot to simply do the combat task and keep acceptable situation-awareness.
                                    There were talks about increased political pressure by Mil.. Who knows?

                                    Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                    Never heard of that, as well.
                                    Ken is entirely right here, Ka-50 required removal of the main gearbox prior to loading into an Il-76 which has constituted significant logistic burden.

                                    Comment

                                    • MSphere
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 8983

                                      Originally posted by Flanker_man View Post
                                      The Ka-50-2 lost out in the Turkish competition to the Bell AH-1Z(?) Cobra IIRC.
                                      ... which has later lost out to T129 when the competition has been restarted..

                                      Comment

                                      • Scar
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Nov 2015
                                        • 682

                                        Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                        I have read the same.. Kamov has shipped two Ka-50s and two improved Ka-29s at their own expense to war in Chechnya, as well..
                                        I asked about this episode. Not Chechnya.

                                        during exercises in the Russias far east - when, not invited to compete, Kamov shipped out a Ka-50 at their own expense - and it beat the Mi-28 hands down (or at least greatly impressed the military).
                                        I just never read of that.

                                        Comment

                                        • archangelski
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jul 2013
                                          • 2385

                                          Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                          I asked about this episode. Not Chechnya.

                                          I just never read of that.
                                          If I remember well, it was during RUBEZH 2004 exercise in Kyrgyzstan. A Ka-50 (Yellow c/n 25) was sent (and paid) by Kamov company to participate, in an effort to market the helicopter to the Russian AF.

                                          Comment

                                          Unconfigured Ad Widget

                                          Collapse

                                           

                                          Working...
                                          X