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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • LMFS
    Rank 4 Registered User
    • Feb 2018
    • 562

    New in the forum, greetings to all!

    stealthflanker, I read some weeks ago that the Russian SMs were indeed going to receive the Irbis among other upgrades, guess this would be rather easy to sell to other air forces as well, in order to keep their Flankers up to date. If Indonesia is going to receive the Su-35 itself, then it would make even more sense as a mid-term update package.

    Comment

    • MadRat
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2006
      • 5032

      J-20 is a paradigm shift in technology. Fighting J-20 with MKI would be suicidal. Pretending it will be the same old status quo just proves Darwin's Theory is alive and well in 2018.
      Go Huskers!

      Comment

      • sepheronx
        Senior Member
        • Jun 2015
        • 320

        Is it? Cause we know nothing of the J-20. What exactly is its radar? Has anyone seen it? What about its engines?

        Sorry, but looks are one thing. What is inside matters. And this regard, we know so little of it.

        Comment

        • Arihant
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Apr 2017
          • 440

          This is nonsense speculation, much like the silly MKI "fat juicy " comment.
          I was basing it on the recent statement by ACM where he says casually that the J-20 isn't that stealthy. Then the Taiwanese also came up with a detailed RCS analysis of the J-20. If that is even somewhat true then the J-20 will be seen hundred of kms away.

          http://forumimage.ru/show/8411940

          It is saying 'the image is temporarily unavailable'. Do you have any other pic TR1.

          There is lots of nonsens in youre -"stealth MKI vs J-20 claim.
          Aboundance of nonsens..
          If you think the MKI doesn't have an internal jammer or the latest batches haven't received ram treatments to reduce RCS then I must say you are dead wrong.

          Comment

          • JSR
            JSR
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2011
            • 4982

            Wingtip pods are for group protection, escort duties and SEAD and Dead purposes. At least for our Su-30 MKI. Wingtip mounted pods have already been developed by Dare for such a purpose.
            It clearly say wingtip system is used on Flankers and smart skin for T-50.
            http://tass.com/defense/942027
            Gimalai EW system
            This system is derived from the Khibiny technology and is designed for the fifth-generation T-50 (PAK FA) aircraft.
            As compared to its predecessor Khibiny, which is shaped as a container mounted on a specific wingtip hardpoint, the Gimalai platform is fully integrated with the aircrafts body and designed as individual parts of the planes fuselage

            Comment

            • MadRat
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2006
              • 5032

              The Chinese have demonstrated finesse with program details that exceed anything from the Su-57 program thus far. They already widely deploy Al-31F equivalent engines. They also have access to Russia's premier program, the Su-35S. And people want to pretend MKI is even on par with J-20? Pure Darwin.
              Go Huskers!

              Comment

              • sepheronx
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2015
                • 320

                Such as?

                What Radar does it use? How many elements? Its engines are nothing compared to Russias Su-57, even people with basic info know this. What is Pure Darwin is your claims with nothing to back it up.

                But judging by your earlier comments, you are not worth the time or effort. Just ****ting on Russian thread for the sake of it.

                Comment

                • Arihant
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Apr 2017
                  • 440

                  The Chinese have demonstrated finesse with program details that exceed anything from the Su-57 program thus far. They already widely deploy Al-31F equivalent engines. They also have access to Russia's premier program, the Su-35S. And people want to pretend MKI is even on par with J-20? Pure Darwin.
                  Have you been meeting up with JSR over the past couple of days? Leave alone the J-20, even their third generation F-7PG is better than the Su-57.

                  Bars has a detection range of roughly ~250km for 3m^2 targets. So Pak F-16 would be seen much further away than 120km.
                  @sepheronx

                  A F-16 MLU in A2A configuration and with drop tanks will have a RCS of atleast 5sqm. The APG-68(v) 9 has a 105 km detection range for a 5sqm target. But the MKI has a larger frontal RCS, so wouldn't the F-16 MLU or blk 50 detect the Su-30 first in a BVR engagement considering the fact that no ecm is being used.

                  Comment

                  • Arihant
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Apr 2017
                    • 440

                    On Zvezda today they showed fragments from the F-117 that was shot down over Serbia, and spoke about the analysis of the RAM they did back then and so on and so forth. First time I see it properly confirmed that parts of the wreckage were sent abroad (though it has been strongly implied before, and pretty much a no-brainer anyway)

                    Lots of talk about RCS studies in general, in that programme, with lots of models shown. Obviously nothing high-tech, as that is surely classified, but still.
                    Are you talking about this?




                    The Russians must also have thoroughly analysed the Rq-170 that was brought down over Iran
                    Last edited by Arihant; 9th April 2018, 04:16.

                    Comment

                    • sepheronx
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2015
                      • 320

                      Not necessarily. If Bars sees a target at 250km at 3m^2, then it would see the 5m^2 at longer ranges, up to 300kms. If the Su-30MKI is about 11 - 15M^2 in RCS, then maybe F-16 may see it first. Or may be close to similar ranges.

                      @TR1, image you linked to seems broken. Wont work for me. Dunno about for others. Can you re-upload it?
                      Last edited by sepheronx; 9th April 2018, 04:38.

                      Comment

                      • JSR
                        JSR
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 4982

                        Arihant
                        Have you been meeting up with JSR over the past couple of days?
                        how you quietly drop the internal jammer issue in MKI that you claimed is continuously updated from Israel as if India is even capable of importing stuff so fast. I wonder what else is wrong in your statements. you simply refuse to admit that India cannot compete with China that makes you inaccurate claims.

                        Comment

                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          Originally posted by Dr.Snufflebug View Post
                          On Zvezda today they showed fragments from the F-117 that was shot down over Serbia, and spoke about the analysis of the RAM they did back then and so on and so forth. First time I see it properly confirmed that parts of the wreckage were sent abroad (though it has been strongly implied before, and pretty much a no-brainer anyway)

                          Lots of talk about RCS studies in general, in that programme, with lots of models shown. Obviously nothing high-tech, as that is surely classified, but still.
                          RAM in itself is no big deal.. in the last two decades it has been commercialized beyond recognition.. the principles are well known, producers and vendors are in abundance even outside of the US, it's quite easy to have your RAM tuned to the specific frequency band in question.. now it's all about application, know-how and cost rather than about sheer availability..

                          1 liter for EUR 59.90, be my guest

                          https://www.gigahertz-solutions.de/e...nt/453/cfa40-1
                          Last edited by MSphere; 9th April 2018, 09:59.

                          Comment

                          • wilhelm
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2004
                            • 1658

                            Originally posted by sepheronx View Post
                            Such as?

                            What Radar does it use? How many elements? Its engines are nothing compared to Russias Su-57, even people with basic info know this. What is Pure Darwin is your claims with nothing to back it up.

                            But judging by your earlier comments, you are not worth the time or effort. Just ****ting on Russian thread for the sake of it.
                            Madrat, like Oohshiny, are posters from f-16.net, a cesspit renowned for its xenephobia.
                            I'm baffled why anyone bothers to respond to their needy rubbish. It almost always has either a trolling political edge, or is off-topic....on purpose.
                            There are a few other posters that leap in always with off-topic nonsense too, here and on the Su-57 thread, and are just as easily identifiable.

                            Comment

                            • Sintra
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2007
                              • 3851

                              are posters from f-16.net, a cesspit renowned for its xenephobia.
                              "f-16.net" is far from being a "cesspit", actually there are not many places in wich we can actually find viper drivers. You might not like their opinion on your favorite kit, but their reaction is no diferent from, lets say any Russian or Chinese Form when the words "JSF" are written (or "Typhoon" at "Air Defense NET", or "JF-17" at Bharat Rakshak, etc).
                              Last edited by Sintra; 9th April 2018, 17:15.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • haavarla
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 6715

                                "f-16.net" is far from being a "cesspit", actually there are not many places in wich we can actually find viper drivers. You might not like their opinion on your favorite kit, but their reaction is no diferent from, lets say any Russian or Chinese Form when the words "JSF" are written (or "Typhoon" at "Air Defense NET", or "JF-17" at Bharat Rakshak, etc).
                                Lets be fair Sintra. Posters and fighter Jockey like Blindpilot, AoA32, and a very few others, very rarely post anything there. And when they do, they post in F-16/F-18 threads which cover some history or technical’s on the jets they flew.
                                They stay well clear of the seccpit threads that included bashing anything that isn't made in USA.
                                I think its part due to the utterly little sense of knowledge about different Russian Airforce hardware in general.This is good on them i guess.

                                The problem is all the other posters with warped view on stuff.
                                Posters like Madrat is actually one of the few at F-16.net whom has some knowledge about Russian Airforce hardware.. and that explains a lot about F-16.net..
                                Last edited by haavarla; 9th April 2018, 19:32.
                                Thanks

                                Comment

                                • BlackArcher
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2010
                                  • 4374

                                  J-20 is a paradigm shift in technology. Fighting J-20 with MKI would be suicidal. Pretending it will be the same old status quo just proves Darwin's Theory is alive and well in 2018.
                                  So Madrat, you believe that an internet poster like yourself knows better about this than a professional air force whose men and women's lives are on the line, one that flies hundreds of 4th gen combat jets, knows the in and outs of its fighters including their acquisition ranges against various types of targets having different RCS? An air force whose job is to defend the nation against China and its J-20? And you believe that they're sitting there blissfully unaware of how dangerous the J-20 may be?

                                  The IAF, like every other armed service, does one thing very well, in order to gain political support for bigger budget- it makes the political class aware of the level of threat it faces. The fact that they're UNDERPLAYING the J-20 threat says a lot. I would've expected them to OVERSTATE the J-20 threat in order to expedite fighter purchases and S-400 contract signature.

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    MiG-31BM carrying Kh-47M2 missile.. I have read the BMs adapted to carry the Kinzhal should get a special designation..

                                    Comment

                                    • MadRat
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2006
                                      • 5032

                                      I'm wondering if there would be an impetus to draw down Tu-22M3 out from it's anti-shipping role in some cases now that such a long range platform with substantially less cost has role overlap. The question would then be, re-purpose the Tu-22M3 or retire it.
                                      Go Huskers!

                                      Comment

                                      • paralay
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2005
                                        • 1418

                                        1. Kh-47M2 - does not exist
                                        2. Tu-22M3 will be upgraded for cruise missiles X-50 (6 inside or 5 inside and two outside)

                                        Comment

                                        • sepheronx
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jun 2015
                                          • 320

                                          Originally posted by paralay View Post
                                          1. Kh-47M2 - does not exist
                                          2. Tu-22M3 will be upgraded for cruise missiles X-50 (6 inside or 5 inside and two outside)
                                          What? Kinzhal doesn't exist? So all those videos, picturea, test and further on more videos of it, are all fakes? What?

                                          Comment

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