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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6463

    First of the two Flying Command Post for MOD on Tu-214 Platform , Tu-214PU-SBUS

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3145203.html



    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment

    • maurobaggio
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jul 2008
      • 521

      I do not know if I'm on the same page from UCAV that has been derived of the YAK-130 and it were mentioned here by others, maybe I'm quite outdated by now , but AFAIK the UCAV from Yak-130 has been originally proposed to replace the Su-25SM when it should be withdrawn from service.

      The idea of ​​replacing the Su-25's with an attack version of the Yak-130 had been proposed since the end of 1990s. However, the VKS had rejected the proposal around 2010, since the Yak-130 would have not been capable to receive the armored cockpit ,due to the weight , for the crew as it exists in the Su-25, and even in the Su-34 that allow these flying in ultra- low altitudes over hostile territory.

      The Yakovlev made then new proposal in order to eliminate the armored cockpit through the transformation of the Yak-130 into UCAV, in this case the pilots does not need to receive any protection because they will not be in the aircraft.

      Apparently this idea had been partially accepted by VKS, however the VKS would prefer this attack version from Yak-130 should be an UCAV, but also it would have been equipped with single seater for pilot if necessary in reason of the mission, in this case this version of the Yak-130 could be: controlled for ground station through datalink by the pilot, the capability to perform some missions autonomously without ground control, as well as it to perform missions with the pilot in the cockpit.

      This attack version from Yak-130 could have been used also in training missions instead only to replace the Su-25SM, in this case being a single seat version of the Yak-130 seems quite bizarre the training function, still only the student would assume the cockpit while the instructor would have been comfortably controlling the aircraft from the ground station just like if it were a UAV or UCAV, otherwise this ground station could have been used as simulator for the cadets when there were no fly with students, as well as this ground station could be transported for others places for forwards operations.

      Perhaps the proposal of a UCAV has been derived from the Su-57 are in the same concept described above for the Yak-130, however this concept are not new in Russia, since the program of the Buran spacecraft had been provided that were capable to carry out unmanned missions or not , in fact the only mission of the Buran spacecraft were realized autonomously (without crew) in 1988.

      Although the Buran program was a remarkable achievement for the space program not only of the republics from former Soviet Union, but also of space science around the world, it actually deserved a better fate than has been show in the website below.

      https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...t-day-gagarin/

      Comment

      • TR1
        TR1
        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
        • Oct 2010
        • 9804

        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3149184.html

        VK-800 lives!

        VK-800S being adapted for the L-410 being assembled in Russia.
        sigpic

        Comment

        • stealthflanker
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2015
          • 1007

          A flanker photo courtesy of our aviation photographer Jeff Pradananda. I would expect our Su-35's to have same camouflage scheme.

          Click image for larger version

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          I really wish our airforce to get rid of ol N001 and having at least more modern Phazotron alternatives (if Irbis E is not possible) There was early Su-30MK3 program which boast Phazotron Zhuk-MSE radar, roughly equivalent to APG-63V1 but for some reason that project never went through. Said to be offered to China but no real deal proceed. If we ever acquire RVV-SD, N001 will not be adequate to support its 110 Km range and to say nothing to RVV-BD.

          Comment

          • Dr.Snufflebug
            Boggleboople snufflebug
            • Aug 2012
            • 521

            I wonder what kind of dB-readings you'd get right there:

            sigpic

            Comment

            • MadRat
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2006
              • 5033

              What you really need is to spin off Flanker altogether. Your contemporary opponents have the answers to an MKI.

              As much as the IAF has put into Flanker, it's a big, fat, juicy modern day target for Pakistani AMRAAM and Chinese HQ's. And J-20 would eat it alive in practice, theory, and every situation in between.
              Go Huskers!

              Comment

              • haavarla
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2008
                • 6652

                What you really need is to spin off Flanker altogether. Your contemporary opponents have the answers to an MKI.

                As much as the IAF has put into Flanker, it's a big, fat, juicy modern day target for Pakistani AMRAAM and Chinese HQ's. And J-20 would eat it alive in practice, theory, and every situation in between.
                You can't make a more general assumption if you'd try Madrat..
                If a MKI is a "Big Fat Jucy Target", then what does that make the PLAF Su-27SK, Su-27SKM, Su-30MK2, Su-30MKK then

                Oh.. lets not forget the J-11, J-15 and J-16 linage as well.. You could also argue that the J-10B now is a Jucy Target, and its still very much in production in China.
                Are you getting my point?
                All this overhyped 5th Generation fighters.. when the large Main stay fleet of fighters will be upgrade 4th Gen. For the whole next Decade. Never mind this decade.

                India is atleast trying to make the Tejas a Hi/Lo jet, with less cost operating it.. well at least that is their long term Goal.

                And pls stop gnawing on my Flankers will you. My Flanker Biased aside. There is still a viable roadmap to upgrade the Flanker, and more correctly the MKI. Such a deal will happen between HAL and IRKUTSK Plant.
                My take is that they are waiting for a better radar and possible a few other system, before they start on the super MKI upgrade.

                Not so long ago, we saw contracts for the USA F-15E upgrade. Big fat Jucy Target contracts on F-15E..


                Besides, this is the VKS thread. If you want to make the case, then post your point at IAF thread.
                Cause with this recent visit;
                https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/04/a...ntl/index.html
                there is not much point of a China vs Russia comparison, is there?

                Great pic there dr. snuff. Thx!
                I shall from this day call the Mig-31; The Beast.
                Last edited by haavarla; 8th April 2018, 15:27.
                Thanks

                Comment

                • MSphere
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 8983

                  Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
                  I really wish our airforce to get rid of ol N001 and having at least more modern Phazotron alternatives (if Irbis E is not possible) There was early Su-30MK3 program which boast Phazotron Zhuk-MSE radar, roughly equivalent to APG-63V1 but for some reason that project never went through. Said to be offered to China but no real deal proceed. If we ever acquire RVV-SD, N001 will not be adequate to support its 110 Km range and to say nothing to RVV-BD.
                  Lots of inaccuracies there, amigo.. Let me correct these..
                  1. Zhuk-MSE would hardly be equivalent to APG-63(V)1 since the former is a mechanical slotted array radar while the latter is a 1st Gen AESA. You probably mean Zhuk-MSF Sokol PESA, but this has never been flight tested, to my knowledge.
                  2. I am not aware of Zhuk-MSE having ever been tested on Su-30MK. I have only seen it mounted on the Su-27KUB prototype. I am not even sure if the development has ever been completed..
                  3. The typical Su-30 upgrade would most likely be N011M BARS but this thing is so heavy that it needs to compensate for the shift of center of gravity.. We are talking different FCS, canards.. resulting in an IAPO Flanker (Su-30MKI/SM). The problem is your air force is stuck with the low-cost Su-30MK2 by KnAAPO..
                  4. The only possibility that comes into my mind would be a combination of N001VEP backend with Pero PESA array.. I don't think this config has ever been flight tested, though..
                  5. RVV-BD has not been integrated with any Flanker, as of yet.. And if it ever will be, then definitely not with KnAAPO Su-30MK2s.. Su-35S is the usual suspect..

                  Comment

                  • MSphere
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 8983

                    Originally posted by MadRat View Post
                    What you really need is to spin off Flanker altogether. Your contemporary opponents have the answers to an MKI.

                    As much as the IAF has put into Flanker, it's a big, fat, juicy modern day target for Pakistani AMRAAM and Chinese HQ's. And J-20 would eat it alive in practice, theory, and every situation in between.
                    IAF is facing a rather critical shortage of airframes and you are suggesting getting rid of the mainstay of their air force? And what exactly should they get, instead? 270 F-35s for $30000000 billion?

                    Comment

                    • stealthflanker
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2015
                      • 1007

                      Lots of inaccuracies there, amigo.. Let me correct these..
                      1. Zhuk-MSE would hardly be equivalent to APG-63(V)1 since the former is a mechanical slotted array radar while the latter is a 1st Gen AESA. You probably mean Zhuk-MSF Sokol PESA, but this has never been flight tested, to my knowledge.
                      2. I am not aware of Zhuk-MSE having ever been tested on Su-30MK. I have only seen it mounted on the Su-27KUB prototype. I am not even sure if the development has ever been completed..
                      3. The typical Su-30 upgrade would most likely be N011M BARS but this thing is so heavy that it needs to compensate for the shift of center of gravity.. We are talking different FCS, canards.. resulting in an IAPO Flanker (Su-30MKI/SM). The problem is your air force is stuck with the low-cost Su-30MK2 by KnAAPO..
                      4. The only possibility that comes into my mind would be a combination of N001VEP backend with Pero PESA array.. I don't think this config has ever been flight tested, though..
                      5. RVV-BD has not been integrated with any Flanker, as of yet.. And if it ever will be, then definitely not with KnAAPO Su-30MK2s.. Su-35S is the usual suspect..
                      1.The AESA is V2 m8. V1 is still MSA.
                      2.There was Su-30MK3 program, which offered to China with that radar, perhaps a prototype made it but no real deal proceed
                      3.I really wonder about it, what's the weight of N001 compared to N011M. We know the latter weigh like 650 Kg but the former i think, not any lighter. I know a myth stated that MKI need canard because of radar, which originated from American Author i recalled but nothing mentioned in Yefim Gordon's book.
                      4.There was prototype with PERO, i think it's already fly
                      5. yeah more like it's for SU-35's.

                      Comment

                      • Arihant
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2017
                        • 440

                        As much as the IAF has put into Flanker, it's a big, fat, juicy modern day target for Pakistani AMRAAM and Chinese HQ's. And J-20 would eat it alive in practice, theory, and every situation in between.
                        Are you even serious?
                        Knowing fully well that AIM-120C-5 is in service with the PAF F-16 MLU and Block 50/52, do you really expect the IAF top brass to sit back and do nothing about them?

                        Su-30mki aren't fat juicy targets. The F-16 MLU and block 50/52 are for our Sukhois.

                        We have expended enough resources into making our Frontline fighter fleets survival in the air. The MKI carries a variant of ELL-8222 spj internally since the beginning and this pod has been subjected to upgrades to keep them contemporary. Not only the C-5, even the C-7 and AIM-120D will pose no risk to our Flankers.

                        And the later batches of built in India Flanker H have been subjected to RCS reduction measures and Ram treatments. So if you expect our Sukhoi to have a frontal RCS of 10-12 sqm in an Ato A configuration, you are dead wrong.
                        Also do keep in mind our N011M Bars do not have a range of just 120 km against a F-16 class target as the NIIP official site says. It's much longer.


                        As for J-20, well we will see them coming from hundreds of kms away. Do not compare a J-20 with a Flanker. It's like comparing a Toyota Corolla with a BMW M5.

                        Comment

                        • sepheronx
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2015
                          • 320

                          Bars has a detection range of roughly ~250km for 3m^2 targets. So Pak F-16 would be seen much further away than 120km.

                          Comment

                          • haavarla
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 6652

                            Bars has a detection range of roughly ~250km for 3m^2 targets. So Pak F-16 would be seen much further away than 120km.
                            No need to follow up on Madrat and Airhant nonsens here Sepherox.

                            While not comparing x vs y which is boring and always ends badly.
                            I would say the BARS is far from the reported 600kg it once was.
                            This without a doubt.
                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • JSR
                              JSR
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 4950

                              The MKI carries a variant of ELL-8222 spj internally since the beginning and this pod has been subjected to upgrades to keep them contemporary.
                              This for Sunday Humour. If internal Jammer can solve it there will be no need for big pods outside.

                              Comment

                              • rpgtype7v
                                Rank 4 Registered User
                                • Jan 2018
                                • 23

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                                • Arihant
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Apr 2017
                                  • 440

                                  Bars has a detection range of roughly ~250km for 3m^2 targets. So Pak F-16 would be seen much further away than 120km.
                                  https://www.niip.ru/catalog/aviatsio...nie/rlsu-bars/

                                  Air-Air mode:
                                  Detection range of the MIG-29 type fighter in the 300 square meter viewing area. hail:
                                  - on the oncoming courses - up to 140 km;
                                  - on the catch-up courses - up to 60 km.
                                  From this page, for an approaching MiG-29 the range is stated as 140 km. Now a vanilla clean or A2A loaded MiG-29 has a higher RCS than an A2A loaded F-16. Also frontal aspect RCS of a clean MiG-29 is higher than 3sqm.

                                  No need to follow up on Madrat and Airhant nonsens here Sepherox.
                                  Haavarla Will you kindly point out to the nonsense I said. Exactly what according to you all knowing wisdom was nonsense in what I had written as a reply to Madrat.


                                  This for Sunday Humour. If internal Jammer can solve it there will be no need for big pods outside
                                  Wingtip pods are for group protection, escort duties and SEAD and Dead purposes. At least for our Su-30 MKI. Wingtip mounted pods have already been developed by Dare for such a purpose.
                                  Last edited by Arihant; 8th April 2018, 17:41.

                                  Comment

                                  • haavarla
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2008
                                    • 6652

                                    There is lots of nonsens in youre -"stealth MKI vs J-20 claim.
                                    Aboundance of nonsens..
                                    Last edited by haavarla; 8th April 2018, 18:01.
                                    Thanks

                                    Comment

                                    • TR1
                                      TR1
                                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                      • Oct 2010
                                      • 9804

                                      Not even going to bother addressing MadRat's latest brilliance, but:

                                      From this page, for an approaching MiG-29 the range is stated as 140 km.
                                      That was Bars range like two decades ago.

                                      Now it is closer to this:

                                      http://forumimage.ru/show/8411940
                                      Fighter detection range: 250-300km.
                                      Enages 8 targets at once.

                                      As for J-20, well we will see them coming from hundreds of kms away.
                                      This is nonsense speculation, much like the silly MKI "fat juicy " comment.
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • stealthflanker
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2015
                                        • 1007

                                        yay, i guess Bars-R can support RVV-BD.

                                        Comment

                                        • Dr.Snufflebug
                                          Boggleboople snufflebug
                                          • Aug 2012
                                          • 521

                                          On Zvezda today they showed fragments from the F-117 that was shot down over Serbia, and spoke about the analysis of the RAM they did back then and so on and so forth. First time I see it properly confirmed that parts of the wreckage were sent abroad (though it has been strongly implied before, and pretty much a no-brainer anyway)

                                          Lots of talk about RCS studies in general, in that programme, with lots of models shown. Obviously nothing high-tech, as that is surely classified, but still.
                                          sigpic

                                          Comment

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