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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • TR1
    TR1
    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
    • Oct 2010
    • 9804

    Now this is interesting, especially in light of the nuclear discussion:

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3131980.html

    In light of tightening budget, priority has been assigned to the Avanguard HGV- the Rubezh nuclear missile has been put on hold as far as GPV 2027 is concerned.

    Rubezh was one of the missiles causing consternation to the US in terms of the INF, though I think their most pressing claim is re. an Iskander variant.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6463

      Rubezh range was not an issue since it was demonstrated to be beyond INF range.

      There is Yars-M and Bulava-M under works which is replacing the PBV with Rubezh warhead a BGRV with propulsion and guidance , Rubezh was more of Technology Demostrator for this new BGRV with a fat booster to reduce boost stage time.

      If the news is true and if they want to replace that with Avantgrad then it means SRF will deploy more avangrad with more powerful warhead 2MT + , HGV is one generation ahead of any BGRV including the advanced types that Rubezh tested and due to START limitations more Rubezh would mean less of Avangrad when it comes to vehicals and warhead deployed.

      I think in next decade they will go with a smaller ( since new START treat is at work with more cuts ) number with qualatitive better system from anti-ABM pov
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • haavarla
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2008
        • 6652

        I made no claims about the S-350, but to date, for land use, yes it seems like 9M96 is only to be used on the S-350. However the S-350 is still not in service, nor is the 9M96 seen on ANY Russian land-based SAM batteries, so live and see I guess
        From what i understand, its the Radar complex system of Redut Poliment that is causing the headache.
        But the missile itself(as in size shape and form) would be the same as in S-350 as in the Navy. Could be some difference in the seeker head though.

        And i agree, the tubes of 9m96 as slimmer over the S-300F/FM and thus it makes perfect sense to put them on Corvettes and Frigates. You can fit more.
        Thanks

        Comment

        • rpgtype7v
          Rank 4 Registered User
          • Jan 2018
          • 23

          nope, rubez is ultralight old missile -kuryer . kuryer was 17 tonns and 10.000km range , rubez is 8-10 tonns 5000km on pure balistic trajectory , but it has gliding warhed so it crosses the 5,500km easy .
          now it got even better boost-glide warhead.
          its to be very cheap ,very mobile and with single boost glide warhead just reach Usa , or with 3 warheads keep europe and china in range.

          Comment

          • St. John
            Rank 4 Registered User
            • Jan 2018
            • 568

            Rubezh has been cancelled now anyway, see missiles news section.

            Comment

            • MadRat
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2006
              • 5033

              Sorry, TR1, but you interjected on haavarla's response, which first brought up S-350/Vityaz. You so carefully corrected everything else, except that glaring faux pas by haavarla which began this whole sidetrack?

              You move goalposts, bud.



              S-300 includes radars, TELs, command post vehicles,, missiles, and auxiliary support equipment. So, no, there is no S-300 naval system, genius.
              Last edited by MadRat; 24th March 2018, 02:49.
              Go Huskers!

              Comment

              • TR1
                TR1
                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                • Oct 2010
                • 9804

                Wow you are dense.

                The naval S-300 is CALLED S-300F...IN RUSSIAN. No naval S-300 my ass. Obviously it is modified.

                As for the picture of the 9m96, yes LIKE I SAID it has been shown on arms expo. AND NEVER BOUGHT! Find me a SINGLE in service Russian S-300/400 battery with 9M96 tubes. Or a S-300F or FM naval system with the 9M96 missile in place.

                Harlaava being wrong does not make your mistakes about the Navy and its S-300F/FMs any less glaring.
                sigpic

                Comment

                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6463

                  PD-35 Is The Driving Force Of The Aerospace Development In Russia
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • MadRat
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 5033

                    TR1-

                    You confuse systems with the associative missiles.

                    Like I said earlier, arguing with you is simply unpleasant because you are choosing the meaning to terms that the manufacturer never intended. But since you're simply unable to comprehend your mistakes, it's really a reflection of your own self. I'll accept your total lack of controlling your negative and condescending remarks as the submission it warrants on face value.
                    Go Huskers!

                    Comment

                    • TR1
                      TR1
                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 9804

                      That is one way to admit being wrong, but not really my concern. You are welcome for the education on Russian naval AD.
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • haavarla
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 6652

                        Seriously.. how can people NOT like this!?

                        Alas, brought to you by Konstatine;

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN00taXWjjA

                        All National Bickering aside, these Display is one of its kind. It should only be done by Soviet Russia, cause its a Completely Russian kind of thing.
                        It would kind of look silly if done by US.
                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • haavarla
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 6652

                          Just a few sources on S-300F in Ru-Navy;

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iFs7ds_oaQ

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq3_NAzrPhw

                          Their kind of informative to the TR1 and Madrat feud here.
                          Thanks

                          Comment

                          • TR1
                            TR1
                            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 9804



                            Orion
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • stealthflanker
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2015
                              • 1007

                              nice GOES EO ball there.

                              ---
                              Regarding S-300. Im still wonder why the S-300F used in Slava and early Kirov use very different arrangement compared to the land based sibling. Instead of backplane feed PESA like 30N6, the 3R41 Volna use what seemingly a forward space feed. Same trend can be seen to naval TOR, Klinok also use a forward feed AESA in its target tracking radar, compare it with land based TOR which a backplane but with corporate (As TOR antenna use less than 2500 modules) instead of space feed.

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6463

                                Russia in RSA
                                ‏Verified account

                                @EmbassyofRussia
                                Follow Follow @EmbassyofRussia

                                One of Russian Air Force's Sukhoi Su-25SM3 was named after the Hero of Russia, military pilot Roman Filipov who fought terrorists in #Syria and sacrificed himself not to get captured. This is his father seeing for the first time the jet named after his son

                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • PeeD
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2003
                                  • 128

                                  A 8-10ton single warhead nuclear ICBM would be impressive. The Rubezh is now on hold.

                                  HGV's tested previously fly 2/3 of the range as normal ballistic missiles, with a range increase of about 20%. From the animation on the Avantgard we can see a almost non-ballistic HGV optimized flat trajectory.
                                  I wonder if a 10 ton Rubezh which would have a range of 5500km on a ballistic trajectory would be able to reach a credible 8000-10000km ICBM range with an advanced HGV like the Avantgard. Heat management, continuous power supply for control surface actuators are all problems that would need to be solved if the Avantgard would fly a flat trajectory at ~150km altitude.

                                  Another point is: Avantgard on Sarmat ICBM would normally have a higher release speed after boost phase that would make a much improved heat shield necessary compared to the lower velocity Rubezh.
                                  So either the Avantgard on Sarmat is much improved regarding the heat shield or the Avantgard load is of a quantity/weight that slows it down to Rubezh burnout speed at release.

                                  What makes me wonder is whether it would be possible to achieve 10000km range with a flat trajectory HGV, whereas a pure ballistic system would only do 5500km (Rubezh). Means transforming energy to create lift primary instead of transforming speed into heat as in conventional reentry vehicles. But would a range increase of up to 100% be possible?

                                  Comment

                                  • rpgtype7v
                                    Rank 4 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2018
                                    • 23

                                    ofcourse it is , sarmat/rubez is high / low , icbm mix....
                                    rubez 8-10 tonns , it is slower and has less shielding ,with more fuel in the warhead - its boost-glide warhead with lost of lift so it can skip of atmosphere and do all kinds of maneuvers. with 3 warheads it does 6-7000km and with just 1 it goes to 10.000km.

                                    Comment

                                    • MadRat
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Aug 2006
                                      • 5033

                                      https://armadainternational.com/2016...gean-tensions/
                                      https://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpr...-300f-missile/

                                      There are two more references to an S-300F system. But if you go into the individual ships the commonality is the 5V55R missiles and the radar and associated support systems are literally unique from ship to ship. It's almost like S-300F simply means '5V55R support'. And the upgrade (S-300FM) means '5V55RM support'. However, when you talk about ground-based S-300 systems they have specific radars and support. The missiles involved in the ground-based systems have become flexible as it continues to evolve.

                                      S-400F has the same generalized meaning like S-300F/FM, only it means no definitive missiles and would be customized to each ship. Perhaps each deployment may involve unique configurations. Poliment-Redut has the same generalized meaning referring specifically to the S-350 equivalent. It's true that 9M96 has been around. Unfortunately 9M96 wasn't mating up to the naval radars and the missiles had a high defect rate. They sacked the guy getting in the program's way and it's issues were sorted out. The timing of it made it later for the navy, but it certainly delivered exceptional performance.

                                      https://wiki2.org/en/S-400_missile_system

                                      Striking a target at 56km altitude certainly is impressive for a hittile at the edge of it's envelope.
                                      Go Huskers!

                                      Comment

                                      • sepheronx
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Jun 2015
                                        • 320

                                        My understanding is, that 9M96 is in use purely by Navy, but not officially accepted because Gorshkov is still facing one last issue before acceptance: it's engines. As far as I'm aware, the redut issue was resolved.

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6463

                                          What makes me wonder is whether it would be possible to achieve 10000km range with a flat trajectory HGV, whereas a pure ballistic system would only do 5500km (Rubezh).
                                          It would depend at what stage of flight would the HGV released , if the HGV can glide at intercontental ranges in case of say avangrad lets assume 5,500 km then target is at 10000 km away then you would likely burn the 1st and 2nd stage and release the HGV the 5000 km extra will be covered by the stages

                                          Rubezh , is a technology demostrator for something called in western world as parrael seperation system , its designer Yuri Solmonov described with the technology tested it would make PBV redudant as with 3rd stage burnt the missile cease to exisit as a whole , each warhead would individually fly its own distance and targets has its own guidance and propulsion and post reentry it like BGRV

                                          As the designer mentioned eventually Yars-M and Bulava-M would do away with PBV and opt for Rubezh

                                          From an old interview with Yuri Solmonov though the link is dead but I had archived it https://www.rt.com/news/prime-time/r...s-new-missile/

                                          According to Yury Solomonov, the chief designer of the Moscow Heat Engineering Institute, this unique system was successfully tested last year.Unlike the payload of all previously-developed intercontinental ballistic missiles, the new weapon can hit several targets located at great distance from each other.

                                          This means that the current multiple warhead dispensing mechanism called “bus”, a segment that delivers warheads to the destined drop zone used in all modern missiles, will be eliminated, because in the new system, once the terminal stage vehicle of ICBM booster does its job, the missile separates into warheads with “individual means of delivery to destination.”

                                          He said that 30 years ago such a system was discussed and labeled science fiction

                                          The new innovative technology will “put a full stop on all discussions regarding our countermeasures towards non-existent antiballistic missile defense system of our potential enemy,” Solomonov is cited as having said.

                                          Now engineers need to adopt the new warhead to the existing ballistic missiles on alert. This work will take several years and will include launches of experimental Topol-E missile and the following modernization of the Topol-M and RS-24 Yars MIRV missiles that will constitute the backbone of the Russian Strategic Missile Forces in the nearest future.
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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