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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6471

    For the complex "Pantsir" will develop hypersonic rockets

    http://www.interfax.ru/russia/602882
    Moscow. March 8. INTERFAX.RU - The range of the Pantsir anti-aircraft missile system can increase to 60 km thanks to the use of hypersonic missiles, a source in the defense industry complex told Interfax.

    "At the moment, work is underway to create hypersonic missiles for" Shell ", it is planned to bring the range of the complex to 50-60 kilometers," the source said.

    The general director of holding "High-Precision Complexes" Alexander Denisov in 2013 reported that the holding "works, including hypersound." "( Works - IF ) are quite successful," - he said.

    At the moment the range of the complex is about 20 km. According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, since 2018 the upgraded version of the complex, "Pantsir-SM", should begin to enter the troops. Thanks to the new sighting locator, the range of detection and guidance of missiles is 40 km.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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    • stealthflanker
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2015
      • 1013

      which implies larger booster stacks. or somehow smaller terminal stage.

      Comment

      • TR1
        TR1
        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
        • Oct 2010
        • 9817

        Stealthflanker:

        sigpic

        Comment

        • stealthflanker
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2015
          • 1013

          Oh both ways is also possible XD both large booster and smaller terminal stage.

          Thanks for the image TR1. looks to me like it's either both ways or the terminal stage is smaller.

          Comment

          • Austin
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Oct 2003
            • 6471

            Adding booster to any missile would increase it range and speed but till the booster cuts off the missile wont be manouverable so it will significantly reduce its minimum altitude kill
            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

            Comment

            • stealthflanker
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2015
              • 1013

              Well the missile will have to use it's previous speed build up to maneuver. Remember it's about M5 speed so there are lots of potential energy that can be converted into maneuver.

              Comment

              • Austin
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2003
                • 6471

                The booster seems to have fixed rear wings and there is no indication that it has TVC or other kind of control surfaces to aid manouvering.

                The picture with the fattest booster and slimmer 2nd stage rocket is probably the Pantisir-SM with 40 km range , with 40 km and planned 60 km range it is hardly now a SHORAD but more of MRSAM.
                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                Comment

                • St. John
                  Rank 4 Registered User
                  • Jan 2018
                  • 568

                  Two stage missiles are usually only designed to make kills after the first stage has finished, so the one with the larger booster probably has higher Rmin and Rmax.

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9817

                    Su-35S wing EW and IFF detail:



                    sigpic

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                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6471

                      Originally posted by St. John View Post
                      Two stage missiles are usually only designed to make kills after the first stage has finished, so the one with the larger booster probably has higher Rmin and Rmax.
                      They would loft it higher and faster till first stage cuts off and then use the KE and manoeuver of second stage to go for kill

                      The vshord Pantsir is dead with its first iteration the SM and other variants are just mrsam types , nothing wrong with that but there is always a trade off in any missile if you try to add booster

                      I always wondered why they never used fat booster on S-300 and 400 series Sam to increase range like Israel did with Barak-ER and Thad-ER
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • stealthflanker
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Sep 2015
                        • 1013

                        Because adding stage is basically reduced reliability as you have more parts that can fail. Another consideration is that Initially S-300P family is not tasked for ABM Thus it does not need the degree of accelerations required by S-300V. Plus if booster is provided anyway, then you may need to design new launch tube to accommodate additional size.

                        Comment

                        • Austin
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2003
                          • 6471

                          Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
                          Because adding stage is basically reduced reliability as you have more parts that can fail. Another consideration is that Initially S-300P family is not tasked for ABM Thus it does not need the degree of accelerations required by S-300V. Plus if booster is provided anyway, then you may need to design new launch tube to accommodate additional size.
                          Well they can still add fat booster and increase cross range and may be altitude of s-400 system as its both ABm and anti aircraft

                          Reliability and new launch tube is a non issue compared to gains

                          A barak-ER is nothing but a fat booster with Barak-8 on top of it increase range from 70-80 to 150km
                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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                          • stealthflanker
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Sep 2015
                            • 1013

                            That's why S-300V exist in the first place.

                            Comment

                            • TR1
                              TR1
                              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 9817

                              MiG-35 factory trials over, going to VKS testing soon:

                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • haavarla
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 6693

                                A closer look at the MIG and Kinzhal:

                                https://www.rt.com/news/420947-russi...missile-tests/


                                Godammit that thing looks huge.. the Mig looks huge. Its like we entered the land of the Giants..

                                Huge!
                                Thanks

                                Comment

                                • Berkut
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 2216

                                  Thanks for the heads up Haavarla. I would be in love in that thing if it wasnt nuclear... Conventional, bring it on any day. It is almost certainly able to carry both warheads (like Kh-55/555 and Kh-101/102), but still.

                                  So, what version of MiG-31 is this exactly? Obviously not BM but seemingly it is not entirely BM3 either. BM3 has the round antenna in front of windshield and another one close to the wing on left side. Same story in the Kinzhal mod. However, BM3 has two pitots around the radome which Kinzhal mod does not. Also as we see Kinzhal is carried in a cradle which is attached at different points on the fuselage. Hard to tell, but i dont think the frames shown retain the AKU's for R-33... I suspect the frames able to carry Kinzhal are only able to carry it and not R-33 (or even R-73/-77's?).

                                  Comment

                                  • haavarla
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2008
                                    • 6693

                                    Well there are none AKU's/pylons under the wings, so yes.
                                    But we do not know the maturity of the Combo Mig-31 and Kinzhal yet(apart from a few different airframes flying with it).
                                    They could also still be in the weapons test phase of things.
                                    Thanks

                                    Comment

                                    • TR1
                                      TR1
                                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                      • Oct 2010
                                      • 9817

                                      If anything, this looks a lot more mature than I would expect given the lack of fan-fare.

                                      Not exactly a first time launch kind of event.

                                      MiG-31s future gets more interesting, that is for sure. Already was eagerly waiting on BM3....
                                      sigpic

                                      Comment

                                      • stealthflanker
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2015
                                        • 1013

                                        and looks to me it could also have ASAT application too.

                                        Comment

                                        • Austin
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Oct 2003
                                          • 6471

                                          Originally posted by stealthflanker View Post
                                          That's why S-300V exist in the first place.
                                          S-300V are single stage missile but has higher top and average speed

                                          My point was why didnt the Russian explore adding fat stage booster to increase SAM range and acceleration like they did for pantisir- M , they could have done for S-400 series and for BUK/Shtil Sam , Israel got 50% more range for Batak-er just adding a fat booster and something similar for Thad-ER
                                          "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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