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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Flanker_man
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jan 2000
    • 3677

    Same translation problem occurs with the word 'Sukhoi' - which often gets translated as the 'Dry' company.

    I guess it thinks it is the same root as Sec - as used to describe a dry wine??

    Ken
    Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
    Flankers (& others) website at :-
    http://flankers.co.uk/

    Comment

    • sepheronx
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2015
      • 320

      No they aren't. Nothing special about brahmos vs what Russia already fields with Yakhont/Onyx and their already existing Zircon project.

      Comment

      • totoro
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2006
        • 1025

        While BrahMos is basically Onyx, BrahMos-A is something Russians do not use, an air-launched variant of the missile. Russians basically rely on subsonic kh-35 and short reach supersonic kh-31a for their tactical aircraft. Something like brahmos-a could serve them, as it would bit between those two mentioned missiles and the new heavy kh-32 for their tu-22m. That's not to say russia NEEDS such a missile. it may very well be they considered it and decided such a "medium" missile is not within their requirements.

        Comment

        • haavarla
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Dec 2008
          • 6672

          I think this^^ is true. I i was Russian Mod. I would sign a contract for Brahmos A2G version.
          Perhaps this also would help matter on the T-57 for India deal..

          80% servicebility

          This is nothing short of impressive!
          Is the metric the same as in other Airforces? How do the Russians value this?
          Last edited by haavarla; 8th February 2018, 15:18.
          Thanks

          Comment

          • paralay
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2005
            • 1400

            Please excuse, but why is he referring to it as a car? Is that a translation error?
            Russians call the "machine" / "машина" a complex technical device. "Machine-building plant" / "Машино-строительный завод" can produce anything, machines, rockets, aircraft or cars. The translator defines this word as a "car", in Russian it is synonyms. I believe the correct translation of the word "машина" is "craft"
            Last edited by paralay; 8th February 2018, 16:05.

            Comment

            • JSR
              JSR
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2011
              • 4954

              While BrahMos is basically Onyx, BrahMos-A is something Russians do not use, an air-launched variant of the missile. Russians basically rely on subsonic kh-35 and short reach supersonic kh-31a for their tactical aircraft. Something like brahmos-a could serve them, as it would bit between those two mentioned missiles and the new heavy kh-32 for their tu-22m. That's not to say russia NEEDS such a missile. it may very well be they considered it and decided such a "medium" missile is not within their requirements.
              KH31AD/KH31PMK you is not short range. well into 300km range and Flanker can carry 6 of them plus combine anti-ship/anti-radiation attack on ships.

              kh-35UE can hit target destination at 4 meter for export. combination of low rcs and very low altitude attack pattern along with saturated attack make it hard to defeat.
              http://www.ktrv.ru/production/68/673/899/

              here its 3 meter.
              http://russiafeed.com/powerful-new-a...adly-us-ships/
              The Kh-35UE attacks the target at the height of about three meters above sea level – lower than the ship’s deck, which makes detecting it difficult for radar stations. Even if the Kh-35UE is detected, shooting it down at this altitude will be a mission extremely hard to accomplish.

              Comment

              • mrmalaya
                Generation 4.75+++
                • Jan 2010
                • 4664

                Thank you for all the translation explanation.

                Comment

                • haavarla
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 6672

                  https://youtu.be/-ixMbWCtOK8

                  Now what is thy meaning of this?
                  It sound more like a small Block upgrade. New missiles.
                  Thanks

                  Comment

                  • maurobaggio
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 521

                    About the possibility of such Russian version of the Indian BrahMos-A has been launched from air, while today Russia has been using the Yakhont / Onix ( Russian version from BrahMos) capable to be launched from the sea and ground , certainly such version from BrahMos-A could equipped the Su-30SM (Russian Navy and VKS) and Su-34 (VKS), as well as the Tu-22M3 (VKS) has been already equipped with the Kh-32 (modernized Kh-22) .

                    Despite that kh-32 has been capable with better range and more powerful warhead than the BrahMos-A, yet the BrahMos-A has been capable to attack its targets in flight profiles at low altitude following the terrain or sea-skimmer against maritime targets, while the Kh-32 has been restricted with dive attacks from high altitudes.

                    In this case, BrahMos-A could have been an option even for the Tu-22M3, in order to complement the Kh-32's, since the Kh-32 has been keeping advantages at its greatest range and 1,000 kg/2,204 lb and at speeds above Mach 4.5 at the impacting against the target, otherwise the ultra-low flying profile from BrahMos-A should reach its targets at approximately Mach 2.5 and warhead only 500 Kg/ 1,102 lb, but it can use the terrain to hide from air defenses, or even the mode sea-skimmer against naval targets.

                    The Kh-32 has been equipped with rocket engine with liquid fuel propellant , which has been restricting its use in ultra low flying profile, due to the decreasing range in this profile, but the BrahMos-A has been equipped with ramjet (air breathing) propulsion which allows these such great range even at the ultra lows flying profiles
                    .
                    The Kh-32 (Tu-22M3) combination with possible Russian version from BrahMos-A (Su-30SM, Su-34, Su-35S and Tu-22M3) could give the Russian Air Force the same concept that has been already obtained by Kh-32( Tu-22M3) from VKS( Russia Air Force) in conjunction with the P-700 Granit (Cruisers and Nuclear Attack Submarines), Kh-41 Moskit (Destroyers) and Yakhont/Onix( Frigates and TEL) from Russian Navy, however the latter concept has been limited against targets within range of Russian Navy vessels and submarines.

                    Supersonic high speed above Mach 4.5 are such high advantage from Kh-32s, as well as that 1,000 kg/2,204 lb warhead that could penetrate deep into the target before detonation, so ensuring the destruction of hardened targets, however to achieve this capability the Kh-32 missile should dive from a high altitude against the target, which also increases the chance of being detected and intercepted by air defenses.

                    In ultra low flying profiles at the supersonic speed will be lower at the high air density for: P-700 with Mach 1.5, Kh-41with Mach 2.5 and Onix / Yakont / BrahMos with Mach 2.5. However, by following the ground against targets, or in the sea-skimmer mode against naval targets, those missiles could became more difficult to detect and intercept by air defenses.

                    In addition, the possibility that new Kh-50 subsonic cruise missile with 1,500 km/ 810 NM range could be introduced with Tu-22M3, Su-30SM, Su-34 and Su-35S, certainly will give few creeps and nostalgic thoughts for everyone that could need think about that threats, after all this sensation has not been feeling since the end of the Cold War.

                    Comment

                    • TR1
                      TR1
                      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                      • Oct 2010
                      • 9808

                      While BrahMos is basically Onyx, BrahMos-A is something Russians do not use, an air-launched variant of the missile. Russians basically rely on subsonic kh-35 and short reach supersonic kh-31a for their tactical aircraft. Something like brahmos-a could serve them, as it would bit between those two mentioned missiles and the new heavy kh-32 for their tu-22m. That's not to say russia NEEDS such a missile. it may very well be they considered it and decided such a "medium" missile is not within their requirements.

                      The Onix-Flanker mating is very hard on the plane, and is apparently not an easy modification at all. I doubt India solved the problem with zero downsides, so I don't see VKS going with something as large as Onix on tactical planes.
                      Su-34 might be possible as it can compromise on characteristics that a Su-35 cannot.

                      High speed future is mostly likely with smaller, hypersonic weapons, so maybe a relative of Brahmos-2.

                      I i was Russian Mod. I would sign a contract for Brahmos A2G version.
                      Why would they buy a foreign produced missile based on a domestic Russian design, when they can just buy....the Russian missile with a new seeker?
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • TR1
                        TR1
                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 9808

                        Now what is thy meaning of this?
                        It sound more like a small Block upgrade. New missiles.
                        The Su-30SM1 was supposed to be a modernization/import substitution with new weapons, so probably that.
                        However the Thales HUD was supposed to be replaced (with first mention in 2015) and here we are, so who knows where that program is.

                        https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3087431.html

                        Speaking of, Irkut plans to deliver 14 Su-30SM and 10 Yak-130 to MOD this year.
                        Only 2 to the VMF...

                        And a nice pic of most of the airworthy An-22 fleet:

                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • TR1
                          TR1
                          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 9808

                          Related to last post, Su-30SM @ Irkut with new wing-pods, hopefully soon to be retrofitted to the entire fleet (not the older export ones dug out of Company storage for the Syria op):



                          Also, 1:46 of this video, is that part of the L-265M system in the Su-35's leading edge?

                          Last edited by TR1; 9th February 2018, 07:08.
                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • stealthflanker
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Sep 2015
                            • 1009

                            The twin pod arrangement. I wonder tho if there is any interest to make it permanent.. e.g making a pylon below it so it can carry R-73's. Or somewhat internalize the pod.

                            Given the sophistication of today's missile seekers and radars, it seems to me that integrated cross eye jamming capability is a must for every fighter.

                            Comment

                            • haavarla
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 6672

                              StealthFlanker@
                              There are two good reasons to keep the pods on wingtip stations.
                              One is drag Coifficent related.(See F-16 AIM-120 for clues).

                              The other is more efficient FoV or signal dispersion if you will.
                              Thanks

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6463

                                PAK DA/Izdeliye 80 (Butowski/Air&Cosmos/bmpd) . 145 tons, 30 tons payload, 15000 km range, 2 engines with 23 tons thrust based on NK-32-02. https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3088125.html


                                Product 80 is a "flying wing" takeoff weight of 145 tons and a payload of 30 tons. PAK YES is almost twice as light as Tu-160 and is located between Tu-22M3 and Tu-95MS. Tu-160 weighs 275 tons, Tu-95MS-185 tons and Tu-22M3 weighs 124 tons. The head of long-range aviation Anatoly Yakovlev said that the PAK DA will be a plane created according to the "flying wing" scheme with subsonic speed and a range of 15,000 km without refueling. The aircraft will be equipped with two engines "Product of the Russian Federation" with a thrust of 23 tons, created on the basis of the engine NK-32-02 ("product P"). The company ODK-Kuznetsov began its development in December 2014.

                                During a press conference in December 2014, Anatoly Yakovlev said that the prototype PAK DA will take off in 2019, and the aircraft will go to the combat units in 2023-2025. However, in 2015 the idea of ​​resuming production of the Tu-160M2 was accelerated and the PAK DA program was postponed to a later date. Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said that because of the Tu-160M2 program, the PAK DA project "will be postponed somewhat." It can be assumed that the plans for PAK YES have shifted to the right about five years.
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • haavarla
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6672

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq0PBO8pxhc

                                  You just gotto luv the 1:48 sudden change in momentum..

                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6IJePQkkc

                                  And some more Flanker porn^^
                                  Check out the short take-off followed by the sharp climb by the Bort 48 Su-35S.

                                  For once the Flanker did a similar display as the F-22 used to do.. only with shorter Take-off length that is.
                                  Last edited by haavarla; 9th February 2018, 23:46.
                                  Thanks

                                  Comment

                                  • Berkut
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2011
                                    • 2216

                                    Reasonable stats on PAK-DA - but what the hell does it need 15 000km range for? B-2 and Tu-160 are both about 11-12 000. Although Tu-160 will be about 14000km with the upgraded engines. Still.

                                    Comment

                                    • Nicolas10
                                      Senior Member
                                      • May 2005
                                      • 4523

                                      Well longer time on station in remote areas during crisis situations?

                                      Nic

                                      Comment

                                      • Marcellogo
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2014
                                        • 1830

                                        @ Berkut & @Nicolas10

                                        Reasonable stats on PAK-DA - but what the hell does it need 15 000km range for? B-2 and Tu-160 are both about 11-12 000. Although Tu-160 will be about 14000km with the upgraded engines. Still.
                                        Let's consider it from another point of view: it is a flying wing, so it just cannot go supersonic and its engines are more than sufficient for reaching such velocity anyway also at maximum load, so the more fuel/payload they can put into the frame, the better.

                                        Comment

                                        • Trident
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • May 2004
                                          • 3963

                                          Reduces dependence on tanker support, which in turn is often reliant on overseas basing for optimum benefit. Considering the MTOW, 15000km is probably ferry range with little or no payload anyway.
                                          sigpic

                                          Comment

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