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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • TR1
    TR1
    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
    • Oct 2010
    • 9818

    @KGB you are a fanboy, your answer is not valid.
    Coming from someone who so utterly misunderstood Bogdan's statements that he thinks it meant the Su-57 has sensor fusion problems, when he was saying the exact opposite

    the F22 (a realiable fighter for last 15 years)
    The oxygen issues have been super reliable indeed.

    Of course IAF is not agree.
    IAF has not had access to either aircraft, so I am not sure why anyone should care if they do or do not agree with that statement.

    I don't think the timing of that article regarding MiG-41 was accidental.
    There have been mentions of the MiG-41 on and off for the past few years, so I am inclined to think the timing is exactly accidental. In between MiG-31 production being discussed @ the Duma (political nonsense) and MiG-41 occasionally being brought up by Sokol every so often, you are bound to "intercept" SR-72 development leaks.

    The recent quotes by Tarasenko that got people's panties in a bunch over the past few pages don't even mention a MiG-41 but instead talk only about MiG-35 having RCS reduction and EW advances, as well as a new-gen plane being in early R&D phase. That's about it. Ho-hum as you can get.

    Unfortunately that seems to trigger more discussion (along with a sprinkle of how F-22 won't be outdated decades after it is in service, I am sure) than something that actually exists in metal and will end up flying more hours than the SR-72 and "next-gen MiG) combined. Cough Il-112V cough.

    Nice pic, Su-27SM3 finally heads out to Krimsk:

    Last edited by TR1; 18th January 2018, 15:53.
    sigpic

    Comment

    • SpudmanWP
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2009
      • 5292

      So let's reverse the question: Would putting a laser up the fan of a F-35B made it a 6-gen plane?
      I'd say "maybe" for the simple reason that it would have to be a "game changer" when it comes to how it affects the battle field overall. The word "generation" denotes a marked shift in capability.

      As a SCOTUS judge one said of the threshold test of obscenity, "I'll know it when I see it". In other words, it will be an obvious jump in capability.

      As far as the F-86D goes, hell no.
      "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

      Comment

      • FBW
        FBW
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2011
        • 3295

        There have been mentions of the MiG-41 on and off for the past few years, so I am inclined to think the timing is exactly accidental. In between MiG-31 production being discussed @ the Duma (political nonsense) and MiG-41 occasionally being brought up by Sokol every so often, you are bound to "intercept" SR-72 development leaks.
        Fair enough, thought is was interesting coincidence in light of the aerospace world lighting up last week on reading the tea leaves from L-M VP.

        Comment

        • paralay
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2005
          • 1409

          Regardless, they (Russia) will end up getting it (if it meets hype or not) to keep Sokol and Mikoyan alive.
          Hypersonic interceptor - too complex project. It will require huge money, a large-scale modernization of the Sokol plant and all related enterprises. I do not believe that this is possible with the current state of affairs in the country.
          A hypersonic interceptor on kerosene can reach a maximum speed of M = 5, a flight range of ~ 4000 km, with a maximum take-off weight of ~ 80,000 kg. This is the maximum achievable performance without hydrogen.

          Comment

          • paralay
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2005
            • 1409

            I do not understand, are you telling us that the F-22 is outdated comparing with Su-57? I think i understood bad....
            F-22 is an interceptor replacing the F-106. It in many ways repeats the ideology of the MiG-31, adding to it the small visibility and maneuverability of the fighter.
            The beginning of the production of the F-22 in 2001, the last F-22 was released in December 2011.
            The first serial Su-57 will take off in 2018, the oldest Raptor turns 17 years old. Over the years, the characteristics of on-board electronics have gone far ahead. The Su-57 is a multipurpose aircraft, the F-22 is an interceptor with a minimum of ground attack capabilities. Su-57 = F-22 + F-35 "in one bottle." At the same time, he is better than the Raptor as a fighter and better than the Lightning as an attack aircraft, according to the total combat effectiveness.

            Click image for larger version

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            Comment

            • Marcellogo
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2014
              • 1838

              It just a question of what we mean with outdated when we talk about technologies.

              Let's say that it doesn't mean obsolete or inferior in combat, just that any item whose design has been finalized a pair of decades ago would show component of the same age and respond, in case of a military things, to requisites that was fixed even earlier.
              Still it can show certain performances that planes built today but intended for a different role cannot just cope with.
              F-22 and MiG-31 are both a fine example of planes that in their own niche (that Paralay was substantially correct to point out as quite similar between the two) still have not rivals between their more modern companions.

              Comment

              • sepheronx
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2015
                • 320

                Originally posted by paralay View Post
                Hypersonic interceptor - too complex project. It will require huge money, a large-scale modernization of the Sokol plant and all related enterprises. I do not believe that this is possible with the current state of affairs in the country.
                A hypersonic interceptor on kerosene can reach a maximum speed of M = 5, a flight range of ~ 4000 km, with a maximum take-off weight of ~ 80,000 kg. This is the maximum achievable performance without hydrogen.
                Why not? Pak Fa required a lot and it started during worst periods in Russia compared to now, we're they are restarting production of Tu-160.

                Comment

                • haavarla
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 6695

                  Be that as it may Seph
                  Russia already has several large program running for VKS.
                  It stops somewhere due to lack of funding and qualified personel(they are working on current programs).
                  Its not as you have a huge pool where they grow..
                  Thanks

                  Comment

                  • sepheronx
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2015
                    • 320

                    Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                    Be that as it may Seph
                    Russia already has several large program running for VKS.
                    It stops somewhere due to lack of funding and qualified personel(they are working on current programs).
                    Its not as you have a huge pool where they grow..
                    Maybe. Maybe they may emphasise more after Zircon and project 4202 which are hypersonic

                    Comment

                    • paralay
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 1409

                      Why not? Pak Fa required a lot and it started during worst periods in Russia compared to now, we're they are restarting production of Tu-160.
                      Tu-160M2 - repetition of the passed. Hypersonic is new road

                      Comment

                      • MSphere
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 8983

                        I thought stealth was the new road and speed did not matter..

                        Comment

                        • medal64
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2007
                          • 1120

                          A very informative news about the Su-35 and Su-57 onboard systems and their further development.

                          https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/102800/
                          Last edited by medal64; 18th January 2018, 21:00.

                          Comment

                          • sepheronx
                            Senior Member
                            • Jun 2015
                            • 320

                            Tu-160M2 - repetition of the passed. Hypersonic is new road
                            May be a whole new thing but it hasn't stopped Russia from developing hypersonic anyway - as I said, see Zircon and Project 4202. I think there is supposed to be a third hypersonic system coming out as well but not sure of its name or specifics.

                            I know, difference between a missile and an aircraft flying hypersonic. But Materials should be similar, no? And yes, I know, engines would be the biggest one that would need the most amount of input. But there wouldn't be much else needed for such a system to be developed past the engines themselves, maybe the material (as mentioned before) to sustain such speeds.

                            MiG-41, be it hypersonic or not, I am not sure. All we know about it is it is to replace the MiG-31. It may not be hypersonic itself, we do not know. But it will probably be enough to carry the necessary weapons to engage it (hypersonic vehicles). Then again, there will also be the ground based systems too.

                            Once again, it will be funded, one way or another, to keep Sokol and all its employees alive. Much like the order for MiG-35's now.

                            Comment

                            • TR1
                              TR1
                              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 9818

                              Great, the PD-35 is on, and the timeline released:

                              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3056961.html

                              First Jordanian Mi-26T2 has arrived in the country:

                              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3056431.html

                              and some decent pics of the S-400 regiment that recently went online @ Sevastopol:

                              https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3049784.html

                              http://мультимедиа.минобороны.рф/mul...msPhotoGallery
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • stealthflanker
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2015
                                • 1015

                                So i guess Irbis would be the last PESA/Hybrid radar for Russia.

                                Comment

                                • sepheronx
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jun 2015
                                  • 320

                                  Maybe this will interest you stealth.

                                  http://rostec.ru/news/4521887

                                  Talks about GaN modules and Russia expanding production. Said modules operate in 20W.

                                  Comment

                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                    • Oct 2010
                                    • 9818

                                    And the first AESA might very well be N036 if MiG/Phazatron keep dicking around.
                                    sigpic

                                    Comment

                                    • Marcellogo
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jun 2014
                                      • 1838

                                      So i guess Irbis would be the last PESA/Hybrid radar for Russia.
                                      As soon GaN modules would be available, solving the overheating limitations of current GaAn ones , yes.

                                      Comment

                                      • stealthflanker
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2015
                                        • 1015

                                        Originally posted by sepeheronx
                                        Maybe this will interest you stealth.

                                        http://rostec.ru/news/4521887

                                        Talks about GaN modules and Russia expanding production. Said modules operate in 20W.
                                        Thanks :3 and nice news. 20 watts rating for CW could be like hmm 80 Watt for 25% duty cycle for pulsed doppler radar application. But wish the article details about what class of the transistor tho :3 (Radar is using A-class for signal purity reason in cost of Power Added Efficiency/PAE)

                                        Originally posted by TR1
                                        And the first AESA might very well be N036 if MiG/Phazatron keep dicking around.
                                        Which is weird given the NIIP Phazotron have basically almost decade of head start. I tried to track the timeline of the Zhuk AE based on the posters detailing specs and kinda found out that early Zhuk AE was bigger with 680mm diameter antenna and 1088 modules. But the one flying in MiG-35 demonstrator was scaled back with only 575mm diameter, apparently the scaling back was because to save time and allowing MiG-29's original cooling system to cool the design (based on secretprojects forum discussion on same subject). Later they seems to scale it back up. and the FGA-35 starts there.


                                        Originally posted by Marcellogo
                                        As soon GaN modules would be available, solving the overheating limitations of current GaAn ones , yes.
                                        This mainly depends on the platform's own cooling capacity. If you can bring at least 50-60 KW/sqm. you could make use of GaN transistors detailed in the sepheronx's post. For comparison the F/A-18E APG-79 AESA has like 15.6 KW/sqm cooling capacity and MiG-29 have about 7.6-10.6 KW/Sqm. Both doesn't seems capable to make use of GaN unless they have increased cooling capacity.

                                        There isn';t much you can do tho as PAE tend to decrease naturally according to frequency and class. The A-class amplifier used for TR module can reach at best 30-40%

                                        Comment

                                        • Y-20 Bacon
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Apr 2013
                                          • 2176

                                          I know a lot of people here get wet over fighters, but I think the Il-112V pics are great news. Isn't this the one India got cold nuts over?

                                          What is the intended capacity in terms of vehicular transport? Google shows only drawings of one civilian looking van.

                                          Comment

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