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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • stealthflanker
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2015
    • 1016

    No different than typical Active radar homer.

    The point of having two channel active passive seeker is for countermeasure resistance, which made hard for enemy to jam or spoof your seeker. Plus you can passively shoot out of band threat like AEW (RVV-AE seeker is in Ku-X Band which impossible to home in passively on S-band APY-2) or even ground based radar without specialized missile.

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    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6479

      Didnt knew R-77 had a dual band active seeker in X/Ku band , I would like to think the X band is for long range tracking of target and Ku is for high resolution burn through capability under intense RF jamming where X band might just fail
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • Austin
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2003
        • 6479

        PAK YES will be cheaper than Tu-160, but will be able to replace all long-range aircraft

        Подробнее на ТАСС:
        http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/4730201

        "One of the main tasks assigned by the military department to the creators of the long-range aviation complex of the long-range aviation (PAK DA) is to ensure that the new aircraft functions as all three current missile carriers (Tu-160, Tu-95MS and Tu-22M3) much cheaper than the Tu-160, "- said the agency's interlocutor. According to him, "the tactical and technical assignment for the PAK DA is approved by the military, in the near future, with the conclusion of the contract, the production of design documentation will begin, with the subsequent manufacture of prototypes."

        Reducing the cost of development, production and operation of PAK DA will be partly facilitated by the fact that this aircraft will be subsonic. This, according to the source, will not affect its combat effectiveness in any way: the presence of high-precision long-range cruise missiles will allow striking without entering the enemy's air defense zone and not using supersonic regimes. Also, a subsonic aircraft is easier and cheaper to prepare for a flight, it uses less fuel.

        "Today, no country in the world, including such powerful military powers as Russia and the US, simply does not pull the design and construction of a supersonic bomber that meets all the criteria of the fifth generation," the TASS source said.

        The specialist did not specify the estimated value of the PAK YES, which appears in the customer's terms of reference.

        The cost of Tu-160

        Expert estimates of the cost of the Tu-160 aircraft range from $ 250 to $ 600 million (in 1993, the media called the sum of 6 billion rubles, which at the time corresponded to approximately $ 600 million). One hour of the missile carrier's flight (without combat use) costs, according to official figures for 2008, 580 thousand rubles (about $ 23.3 thousand). The cost of the American B-1B bomber, close to the Tu-160 for performance, is $ 317 million, the flight hour costs $ 57.8 thousand.
        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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        • TR1
          TR1
          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
          • Oct 2010
          • 9819

          PAK YES

          ^^^^^ Best translation ever.
          sigpic

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          • Trident
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • May 2004
            • 3965

            Nah, Company "Dry" is still unmatched
            sigpic

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            • Austin
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Oct 2003
              • 6479

              RAC "MiG" will announce the results of flight tests of the MiG-35 fighter at the beginning of next year
              11/16/2017 9:00:00 AM
              Dubai, UAE). 16 November. Interfax-AVN - The results of factory flight tests of the newest MiG-35 fighter will be announced in early 2018, a representative of the Russian aircraft corporation (RAC) MiG told Interfax

              "The factory flight tests are in accordance with the schedule and will be completed at the end of this year, so we can announce the results at the beginning of the next," the company representative said at the Dubai Airshow.

              He noted that this aircraft has introduced many innovations that differentiate the MiG-35 from other machines.

              "In essence, the MiG-35 is a flying computer, it not only has the newest radar installed, but also a number of quite interesting systems, for example, the MiG-35 pilot will be able to capture the air target by simply turning the head with a helmet-pointing system for target designation and indication, the interlocutor of the agency said. According to him, earlier such technology was possessed only by the USA, France and Israel.
              "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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              • Dr.Snufflebug
                Boggleboople snufflebug
                • Aug 2012
                • 527

                Tu-160M rollout:



                First flight in 02/2018 sometime.
                sigpic

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                • TR1
                  TR1
                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 9819

                  That is amazing. Never thought I'd see this sight in my lifetime, was always sad about Tu-160s small production rate and their criminal destruction in the 90s and 2000s.

                  Even accounting for the partially built fuselage starting point, that is a promising pace.
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                  • FBW
                    FBW
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3295

                    Even accounting for the partially built fuselage starting point, that is a promising pace.
                    Please clarify for me;
                    I thought the Tu-160M designation was for upgrading the existing Tu-160 with new avionics system, cockpit displays, and rebuilt engines. (Addition- the "M" retains a modernized Obzor-K but the M2 gets a new active array in development?)

                    Tu-160M2 would be new build aircraft with NK-32-02 engines.

                    Is this correct? So, the newly completed airframe above was completed to Tu-160M, are the engines new build or refurbished?
                    Last edited by FBW; 16th November 2017, 15:20.

                    Comment

                    • a89
                      a89
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 374

                      I thought the Tu-160M designation was for upgrading the existing Tu-160 with new avionics system, cockpit displays, and rebuilt engines. (Addition- the "M" retains a modernized Obzor-K but the M2 gets a new active array in development?)
                      Yes, according to russian sources existing Tu-160Ms will be upgraded to M2 standrd.

                      Tu-160M2 would be new build aircraft with NK-32-02 engines.
                      And eventually in existing ones. Lack of engines was affecting the fleet availability.
                      History and Military Technology blog

                      alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

                      Comment

                      • Berkut
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 2216

                        How in the world did they manage to finish up that frame so bloody quick? Like seriously. I was laughing at the february/march claims for the first flight, but i am no longer laughing...

                        While it certainly looks damn sweet, i still think it is colossal waste of money.

                        Comment

                        • haavarla
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 6697

                          FBW@
                          Dunno about any Active Array. But many moons ago, i read a Article in Air International. Its was mostly about Su-35S.
                          But it was said they looked at putting Irbis-E on upgraded Tu-160.
                          Think they meant the Back End.. hell you could easily fit the proposed Mig-31M 1.4m2 Array there.

                          Edit:
                          Personal i think this is not only a smart move by VKS.. but the only move at the time being.
                          Russia do not have the resources to jump into a large undertaking, as the Pak-Da will ultimatly be for them.
                          They have the Pak-Fa running, its is over theor original budget. There are many other important modernizations program to keep up. NC, Navy, Army has their fair share of the cake.
                          VKS is main challange is believe it or not in fighter shortage right now, but in every other capability. AWACS, Cargo(in all sizes), Tankers.
                          They simply can't get them out fast enough. Il-476 is sure taking its sweet time..

                          I expect to hear how much resources Russia have to throw at these many programs.. don't care. I'm right.
                          And you don't have to take my word for it:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtCYXk9R95I&t=1651s
                          Last edited by haavarla; 16th November 2017, 22:11.
                          Thanks

                          Comment

                          • JSR
                            JSR
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 4976

                            Tu-160M2 will be new built aircraft but this current will progressilvely test systems. around 2021-2022 the final product will be rolled out. this give you atleast 5 to 10 year edge over PAKDA induction not to mention this is bigger, faster,

                            Comment

                            • JSR
                              JSR
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 4976

                              While it certainly looks damn sweet, i still think it is colossal waste of money.
                              why its waste of money? and will make every point accessible in Middleast to bomb with more effective weopons. it is coming 5 to 10 years earlier than PAKFA.
                              never question the big decision.
                              It took them 4 years to understand. i dont think you are that that slow.
                              https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.826bdfacb3f0
                              Russia spent $50 billion on the Sochi Olympics. It might actually have been worth it.

                              Comment

                              • TR1
                                TR1
                                http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                • Oct 2010
                                • 9819

                                Please clarify for me;
                                I thought the Tu-160M designation was for upgrading the existing Tu-160 with new avionics system, cockpit displays, and rebuilt engines. (Addition- the "M" retains a modernized Obzor-K but the M2 gets a new active array in development?)
                                As I understand it, some Tu-160s are (have been?) modernized along a 75% capremont (capital repairs)- 25% modernization basis. No new radar or cockpit replacement AFAIK. The ones with the more thorough Tu-160M modernization have not flown yet. Both were seen on KAPO floors a few years back.


                                [IMG]Is this correct? So, the newly completed airframe above was completed to Tu-160M, are the engines new build or refurbished[/IMG]

                                They are stating this is the first Tu-160M2 prototype AFAIK, but how close it is to M2 proper I have my doubts on.
















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                                • Bellum
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jul 2010
                                  • 118

                                  Originally posted by Berkut
                                  While it certainly looks damn sweet, i still think it is colossal waste of money.
                                  I had the same first reaction as you, but the more I think about it the more I like it. Tu-160 is one of the most important assets of the Russian military.

                                  The idea of conventional deterrence through massive launch of high-precision cruise missiles has became a central thought of current Russian military thinking. That is why almost every new ship is armed with Kalibrs. There are three legs for this deterrence according to recent slides from the MoD. Land-based (cruise missile variant of Iskander-M), sea-based (Kalibrs from ships and submarines) and air-based (Kh-101 from Tu-160 and Tu-95MSM). Now holding areas in the Europe, Asia, Middle-East and North Africa under this threat can be accomplished pretty handily from the first two, but considering the history of the last 100 years and the current political trends, it is obviously of massive importance to be able to have a conventional deterrence vis-a-vis the United States. Of course already the ability to threaten the numerous US military bases around the world is useful, but when the US has a similar existing ability against the Russian mainland, one wants to have a reciprocal escalatory answer against the US mainland. And that can be accomplished by far the best by the third leg, i.e. strategic aviation. Tu-160 gives Russia a truly global, fast and survivable conventional strike capability, with its long range (4000km+) and stealthy Kh-101. It is actually arguable whether the subsonic but stealthy PAK DA or the Mach 2 but only reduced RCS Tu-160M2 is better for this. It depends on how effective counter-stealth capabilities the US can developed within next couple of decades. If they can lessen the effectiveness of the only relevant advantage of PAK DA, then Tu-160M2 with its speed and the safety that brings might be the preferential platform for the role. Also Tu-160M2 will most likely have substantially larger internal cruise missile payload than PAK DA. Besides that, it is in any case highly suspect whether PAK DA could have been produced in meaningful numbers until 2030s. With the production of Tu-160M2 you can have more time to refine the PAK DA design so that it will be more future-proof, when it comes. Anyway the biggest advantage I see for PAK DA is the ability to fly overhead a target in a contested airspace and drop bombs on it, but that seems rather marginal capability to me.

                                  The concept of conventional deterrence is rather useful in comparison to nuclear deterrence in that the capability has an usable offensive side to it. The same missiles and platforms can easily be used to decimate the war making potential of any hapless country which deserves an humanitarian intervention or a regime change. A Georgian war would look very very different today than it did in 2008.

                                  Last edited by Bellum; 17th November 2017, 04:18.

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                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                    • Oct 2010
                                    • 9819











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                                    • Austin
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2003
                                      • 6479

                                      Tu-160M2 looks pretty , Most of the changes are internal to it except for some MAWS/DIRCM sensors you wont see any external changes on Tu-160 base design.
                                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                      Comment

                                      • Austin
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2003
                                        • 6479

                                        The equipping of Tu-22m3 bombers with new long-range cruise missiles

                                        https://iz.ru/663570/aleksei-ramm/ub...olniat-arsenal
                                        "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                        Comment

                                        • a89
                                          a89
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2011
                                          • 374

                                          I had the same first reaction as you, but the more I think about it the more I like it. Tu-160 is one of the most important assets of the Russian military.
                                          It is hard to reach a conclusion because much data is missing. It is not known how much did it cost to restart the line, but will keep KAPO active and will help to modernise the factory, which is an advantage.

                                          Also, Tu-95 and especially Tu-22M3 will not last forever. Would PAK DA be ready by the time these types start to be retired? Probably not.
                                          History and Military Technology blog

                                          alejandro-8en.blogspot.com

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