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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Austin
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2003
    • 6479

    The best reference book on Air Launched Weapon is "Piotr Butowski , Russia's Air-launched Weapons: Russian-made Aircraft Ordnance Today" https://www.amazon.com/Russias-Air-l...dp/0997309210/

    The best till date on subject every one must have a copy of this
    Last edited by Austin; 25th September 2017, 12:09.
    "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

    Comment

    • Austin
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Oct 2003
      • 6479

      Nebo-M is in production for sometime, naturally it won't have GaN modules. However domestic work on such modules has been going on for some years, and not only for Su-57.
      I have yet to see any end product that uses Ga/N module or even advertised for it.

      They seem to be more interested in low-temperature co-fired ceramic technology
      http://www.rusaviainsider.com/unique...logy-proposed/
      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

      Comment

      • stealthflanker
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2015
        • 1016

        hmm even Ka-52 can carry them

        Click image for larger version

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        and this

        Click image for larger version

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        I'm curious if KA-52 ever have chance to fire Kh-35.

        Comment

        • Arihant
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Apr 2017
          • 440

          @Paralay, Thanks for the info.

          So Su-30MKI has a mtow of 38800 kg. But the poster of the Su-30SM pics you had posted lists the Mtow of SM as 34500 kg. I knew the SM was a Russianised version of the Indian Su-30MKI with the foreign avionics and LRUs replaced with those sourced fromRussian OEMs. Then why is there a difference in Mtow of 4 300 between the mtow of SM and MKI ? Is the 34500 kg a typo or am I missing something here ?


          Around 500 kg, it however vary depending from versions for 4,2 lenght and 31 cm diameter.
          Warhead is about 250 kg, so it sits quite exactly between Kh-25 and Kh-29 in terms of weight (i think so that almost the former will survive for a while for when a lighter punch would be preferable).
          There has been an increase in the range of Kh-38M from 40 to 50 kms. But even with this improvement its a bit low when you can have glide weapons with a range of 80-100 km with a 500 kg warhead and 60 kms+ with a 1000 kg warhead when launched at altitude. For example, Spice 1000 and 2000 from Rafael have ranges of 60 and 100 kms respectively. Russia should develope and field such smart glide bombs/pgms with similar range and characteristics.

          The Grom E1/E2 is a better substitute to the Kh-38 series.The rocket powered E1 has a 300 kg warhead and the unpowered E2 has a 450 kg warhead. Although as of now they only have INS/GLONASS guidance but they are going to come with laser,IR seeker heads in the coming future. And these will have better range than the Kh-38.

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          • sepheronx
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2015
            • 320

            GaN modules were being created some years back and apparent tested for navy based radar. GaAS modules can still be quite useful as they aim to greatly reduce heat, increase power output and be able to increase number of units. Much cheaper too. GaN is rather expensive. We will probably see around 2019-2020 as once ROFAR is completed.

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            • Scar
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 682

              I have yet to see any end product that uses Ga/N module or even advertised for it.
              In Russia, we're at least 7 years away from GaN AESA serial production. US was the first who fielded AESA-radars based on the GaN transceivers.

              Comment

              • sepheronx
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2015
                • 320

                Scar, care to share any sources? From what I recall, they tested GaN modules a few years ago. Why 7 years away?

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                • Austin
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Oct 2003
                  • 6479

                  Considering they have not given up even on PESA types and keep building New Generation of PESA of Hybrid Types , They would probably use Ga/A and its derivative for a long time till they move to Ga/N in major way ......thats how Ruskies work .....We might see few system on Ga/N but not a major move

                  BTW would a Irbis type PESA could be jammed by Ga/N type Radar considering both would be throwing enough power at each other ?
                  "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9820

                    70km is the range of Kh-38ME.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Trident
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • May 2004
                      • 3965

                      Originally posted by Blitzo View Post
                      What's the range for the new Kh-38 variants?

                      I've read 3-40km online, but this seems a little bit low for a missile whose dimensions and overall weight seem more in line with a medium sized powered stand off weapon?
                      As others have noted range has been revised upward by quite a bit recently, but it's still a relatively high-speed, solid propellant missile with a large warhead for its size - it won't be breaking records. Basically, it's an alternative approach to building a winged glide bomb with some advantages and drawbacks - for example it retains a significant fraction of its range when launched from low altitude and has shorter time to impact, but it does make for a heavier and more expensive weapon. AASM/Hammer and PGM/Hakim follow a similar approach (slower with bigger wings and smaller rocket engine though, so a bit of a hybrid between Kh-38 and something like Spice or winged GBUs: unpowered with folding high aspect ratio wings).

                      Take your pick.
                      Last edited by Trident; 26th September 2017, 00:03.
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • Scar
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 682

                        Scar, care to share any sources? From what I recall, they tested GaN modules a few years ago. Why 7 years away?
                        Tests and experiments =/= serial production. For example, Fazotron has tested its first Zhuk-A prototype ten years ago, in 2007, but still struggle to establish its serial production and make it through the State Trials. Read this interview with Yuri Beliy in National Defence: http://www.oborona.ru/includes/perio...5/detail.shtml
                        Last edited by Scar; 25th September 2017, 16:47.

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                        • sepheronx
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2015
                          • 320

                          Good article. Says they mastered and improve upon GaAS modules but GaN they are behind in. Although, I'm curious, the supposed GaN modules they made, how did they make them if it is claimed that they don't have the facility?

                          I also am curious were he sits with the work on photonics and the lab created in Russia specifically for R&D in creating aesa modules that take photonic principle?

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                          • Scar
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2015
                            • 682

                            Where and who said they built GaN modules? I've read only about some abstract expirements with "GaN transistors and amplifiers".

                            Comment

                            • sepheronx
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2015
                              • 320

                              I read it a while ago I think here.

                              Anyway, this is what is said: "gallium nitride requires substrates on silicon carbide. This is also a new technology that needs to be mastered"

                              So this is what is holding them back. Wonder were they are in this now?

                              Comment

                              • JangBoGo
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2011
                                • 1509

                                For example, Fazotron has tested its first Zhuk-A prototype ten years ago, in 2007
                                Phazotron did not test their first Zhuk-A prototype in 2007, but, in 2007, for the first time, they showcased to the public, a MiG-29/35 prototype installed with the prototype of a Zhuk-A.

                                AFAIK, the first Zhuk-A started its tests back in 2005.

                                Comment

                                • haavarla
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6697

                                  I don't think the year makes any different. What makes a different is how unimpressed IAF was over the AESA on Mig-35 prototype during MMRCA Tender.
                                  Thanks

                                  Comment

                                  • sepheronx
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Jun 2015
                                    • 320

                                    Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                                    I don't think the year makes any different. What makes a different is how unimpressed IAF was over the AESA on Mig-35 prototype during MMRCA Tender.
                                    this has nothing to do with what we are talking about. No one cares about if India didn't like some prototype of aesa radar with 600~ T/R modules or not about a decade ago. We are talking about t/R module production on Russia and GaAS and GaN tech.

                                    So far, it seems they are concentrating on improving GaAS tech to be as efficient as possible with low heat while hoping to get into GaN

                                    Comment

                                    • sepheronx
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Jun 2015
                                      • 320

                                      Scar, maybe you can answer this for me, but what about Mikran making GaN modules for Kret? Apparently they are working on it:

                                      http://micran.com/business/

                                      But I can find little information.

                                      Comment

                                      • Blitzo
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2011
                                        • 1329

                                        As others have noted range has been revised upward by quite a bit recently, but it's still a relatively high-speed, solid propellant missile with a large warhead for its size - it won't be breaking records. Basically, it's an alternative approach to building a winged glide bomb with some advantages and drawbacks - for example it retains a significant fraction of its range when launched from low altitude and has shorter time to impact, but it does make for a heavier and more expensive weapon. AASM/Hammer and PGM/Hakim follow a similar approach (slower with bigger wings and smaller rocket engine though, so a bit of a hybrid between Kh-38 and something like Spice or winged GBUs: unpowered with folding high aspect ratio wings).

                                        Take your pick.
                                        thanks for the info trident.

                                        the greater speed of the weapon does sort of explain its lower range.

                                        Comment

                                        • Scar
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2015
                                          • 682

                                          Scar, maybe you can answer this for me, but what about Mikran making GaN modules for Kret? Apparently they are working on it:
                                          Dunno, what really should i say? "Show me a single working GaN AESA serial produced radar"? They're declaring: "our company is currently developing the GaN MIC technology.". Ok, nice, but this is what i was talking about earlier - developing or working on something isn't equal to have something real and serial produced. Again, look at AESA Zhuk.

                                          Comment

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