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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Trident
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • May 2004
    • 3970

    Originally posted by Arihant View Post
    Will someone pls start a new Su-57/Pak-fa thread ?
    Done.

    https://forum.keypublishing.com/show...ussion-08-2017
    sigpic

    Comment

    • JangBoGo
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2011
      • 1510

      Pardon, but when was the T50 first aimed to enter service ? In what numbers and ...

      Come on ! In the same way You are mocking how much these F-22-lovers are exaggerate - and You are right - You are hyping a fighter, that is late even by official sources, delayed with nearly all development schedules, probably still hampered by issues and will be introduced in much lower numbers than expected.
      C'mon, it was written in the context of the that "greatest" ever fighter stuff.

      What the experts believed based on their superior intelligence was that a rotten Russia was far behind and broken that a 5th Gen fighter was likely to appear/unveil in the 2015-2020 timeframe. But the PAK-FA came out in 2010. That was the point I was making.

      Also, Russia sort of wasted couple of years waiting for India to join the project so as to lessen the financial burden. There was/is nothing else that India could have contributed to the PAK-FA project regardless of what fanboys may want to claim! Since the PAK-FA was a critical national project for Russia, they did not waste any more time and went ahead solo. What the Indian "experts" have not yet realised w.r.t to Russia in the military/projects is the priority level that Russia attaches to various projects/JVs. Russia doesn't wait indefinitely for any highly indecisive partners which have the potential to thoroughly mess up their national projects which are critical to the forces.

      Comment

      • Deino
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 4228

        C'mon, it was written in the context of the that "greatest" ever fighter stuff.

        What the experts believed based on their superior intelligence was that a rotten Russia was far behind and broken that a 5th Gen fighter was likely to appear/unveil in the 2015-2020 timeframe. But the PAK-FA came out in 2010. That was the point I was making.

        Also, Russia sort of wasted couple of years waiting for India to join the project so as to lessen the financial burden. There was/is nothing else that India could have contributed to the PAK-FA project regardless of what fanboys may want to claim! Since the PAK-FA was a critical national project for Russia, they did not waste any more time and went ahead solo. What the Indian "experts" have not yet realised w.r.t to Russia in the military/projects is the priority level that Russia attaches to various projects/JVs. Russia doesn't wait indefinitely for any highly indecisive partners which have the potential to thoroughly mess up their national projects which are critical to the forces.
        Then pardon and in that context I can fully agree ... esp. on Your comments to India.

        However - and that should be an explanation if not an excuse - I did not read the whole posts before so it was an easy misunderstanding. If You had added a certain smiley it would have been clear from the beginning.

        Sorry for that,
        Deino
        ...

        He was my North, my South, my East and West,
        My working week and my Sunday rest,
        My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
        I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

        The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
        Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
        Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
        For nothing now can ever come to any good.
        -------------------------------------------------
        W.H.Auden (1945)

        Comment

        • Dr.Snufflebug
          Boggleboople snufflebug
          • Aug 2012
          • 530

          Russian Helicopters has reportedly launched production at KVZ of the first series of Mil Mi-38T ordered by the Russian Ministry of Defense:
          http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/r...ews/12362.html

          sigpic

          Comment

          • haavarla
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2008
            • 6715

            Quick Q;
            What heli will the Mi-38T replace.. if any?



            https://sputniknews.com/military/201...russia-mig-31/

            Lmao! You just can’t invent this Gem, even if you tried
            Last edited by haavarla; 24th August 2017, 21:03.
            Thanks

            Comment

            • JSR
              JSR
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2011
              • 4982

              This will lower the bond yields.
              http://aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/emba...efense-systems
              Embattled Qatar eyes Russian air-defense systems
              Qatari emir instructs Defense Ministry to step up military cooperation with Russia

              Comment

              • haavarla
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Dec 2008
                • 6715

                I know this has been posted before, but its first time i see it with proper translation.

                https://youtu.be/M3fMtLqmgsk

                Su-34 in Syria.
                Thanks

                Comment

                • TR1
                  TR1
                  http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 9826

                  100 million USD apiece - is that the flyaway cost, or does it include training, spares and support?

                  Msphere said that each Su-35 was going to sell for 28-30 million USD - how wrong he was...
                  Msphere was talking about domestic prices, and he used actual contract prices in rubles. I don't see how you can argue he was wrong.
                  I do think using domestic contract prices is of limited utility as you cant really separate them from funding the plant gets via other means from the gov, but he is right about the price.

                  I am guessing Indonesia is also not getting a close allies price + if half the deal is in goods, no incentive to give them a bargain.
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9826

                    Very high res Su-34 walkaround:

                    https://postimg.org/gallery/lslddsyo/

                    And a decent Su-35 one too:

                    https://www.flickr.com/photos/100009...57685375253980
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • haavarla
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 6715

                      Tr1@
                      I read somewhere that Indonesia wanted to upgrade(SM3) some of their Su-27's. Could it be possible that this is included in this contract?
                      Last edited by haavarla; 24th August 2017, 04:28.
                      Thanks

                      Comment

                      • KGB
                        KGB
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2016
                        • 1426

                        @ Vnomad

                        Most of which retain MiG-29s in limited quantities of which an even smaller number are actually airworthy. Not exactly a fitting analogue to the F-16. Outside of the former-Soviet states, the only major operators are India & Poland
                        Ukraine has 80 Mig 29's. Uzbekistan has 60. Iran has 40. Kzakistan has 40. North Korea 31. Burma 31

                        There are tons of them out there operating. The theory going around that they are dying on the vine and that there will never be a market for the Mig 35 is just bunk. Most of these air forces will do the practical thing and buy a replacement that all of their infrastructure is built around.
                        Last edited by KGB; 24th August 2017, 05:23.

                        Comment

                        • stealthflanker
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Sep 2015
                          • 1026

                          @haavarla

                          Supposedly our old SK and MKK birds (the TS-2701, 2702, 3001 and 3002) Will have such upgrades carried on in the Belarus company that win the maintenance tender and do the upgrades (There was also news the SK birds will get the Satellite Self Protection Jammer or carry Gardeniya) Unfortunately there are no real close images yet on the aircrafts in question, after their arrival here back in Indonesia like.. hmm some weeks ago.

                          Regarding Su-35's hmm well we basically get same price as China, roughly 85-90 M USD. If we decide to pay more tho (something like 108M/aircraft) There would be additional features. But i have no idea on what feature is that.

                          Comment

                          • haavarla
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 6715

                            Weapons most likely. You need something that makes a bang when you buy bang toys.
                            Last edited by haavarla; 24th August 2017, 10:24.
                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • MSphere
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 8983

                              Originally posted by Levsha
                              100 million USD apiece - is that the flyaway cost, or does it include training, spares and support?
                              That is, of course, typical export price incl. spares, support and training.. roughly as much as what Morocco has paid for F-16C Block 52 eight years ago.. I have seen worse deals than this..
                              .. the "naked" flyaway price for an Su-35S for VKS is ~1.2-1.3 bil RUB

                              Originally posted by Levsha
                              Msphere said that each Su-35 was going to sell for 28-30 million USD - how wrong he was...
                              No sh!t.. you just need to show me where did I say that..

                              Comment

                              • Marcellogo
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jun 2014
                                • 1840

                                @ Haavarla
                                Great thing, the translation really helps with understanding things like tactics, capabilities of the various planes involved and generally the mindset they have in conducting their missions, all things you can't get just watching a video.
                                The first part of the video, centered about the Su-25 is, if possible even more interesting, following the mission step by step.

                                Comment

                                • Marcellogo
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jun 2014
                                  • 1840

                                  @KGB
                                  Let's say that while the F-16 is without a doubt a best seller, Mig-29A was surely exported more that both the versions of the F-15 or of all the F/A-18s (but it can also be of both planes put together+ F-14, no time to make the addition atm).
                                  So comparing it to the Mirage 2000 is just cheap trolling.
                                  The real russian best seller is instead surely the Su-30, a plane of a totally different league when it come to weight, operative capabilities and cost, so maybe the fact that the Mig-29A has not sold as the former MiG planes it's a case of felix culpa there.
                                  Last edited by Marcellogo; 24th August 2017, 13:31.

                                  Comment

                                  • JSR
                                    JSR
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2011
                                    • 4982

                                    Originally posted by KGB View Post
                                    @ Vnomad



                                    Ukraine has 80 Mig 29's. Uzbekistan has 60. Iran has 40. Kzakistan has 40. North Korea 31. Burma 31

                                    There are tons of them out there operating. The theory going around that they are dying on the vine and that there will never be a market for the Mig 35 is just bunk. Most of these air forces will do the practical thing and buy a replacement that all of their infrastructure is built around.
                                    Sudan also i believe. They had largest active exercises with Saudi airforce. The point I was making that India can barely afford 3 M2K upgrade per year and M2K are not even sent for active exercises anywhere. and here Vnimad was claiming IAF and M2K and operations. No one should take his statements seriously .

                                    Comment

                                    • FBW
                                      FBW
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2011
                                      • 3294

                                      Bye bye MiG, news broke Sukhoi and MiG merger going ahead. ( not really goodbye, MiG and Sukhoi names will still be separate on products)

                                      Comment

                                      • FBW
                                        FBW
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2011
                                        • 3294

                                        Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post
                                        @KGB
                                        Let's say that while the F-16 is without a doubt a best seller, Mig-29A was surely exported more that both the versions of the F-15 or of all the F/A-18s (but it can also be of both planes put together+ F-14, no time to make the addition atm).
                                        So comparing it to the Mirage 2000 is just cheap trolling.
                                        e.
                                        No, the F-15 variants (ordered + delivered) exceed that of the MiG-29 exports (excluding those inherited from the former Soviet republics). And the vast majority are still in service.
                                        Last edited by FBW; 24th August 2017, 15:51.

                                        Comment

                                        • verbatim
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2010
                                          • 261

                                          Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                                          Jesus.. this isn't complex, even though many here seems to miss it.
                                          At a very early stage of the Mig-29 and Su-27 program its was decided the Mig-29 was to fill the light tactical fighter role and Su-27 the heavy Frontline interceptor role.

                                          Soviet had resources aviable for a light Twin engine fighter. And that's what happen. The thing would certainly stayed more relevant if Mig-29M would have been. But there is no point arguing with history. Break-up of S U screwed up everything. Mig-29 was certainly no exeption.

                                          It doesn't matter what people want to compare Mig-29 with.. its completely moot. Its the fighter Soviet designed for THEIR OWN airforce and their own requirements at the time.

                                          What it exported or how many produced means squat.
                                          I would say the opposite: because USSR had limited resources compared to NATO, the same engineering study way applyed both to a "light" fighter and to the frontline interceptor one.

                                          Still, nothing but the Will and need of optimization dictated a very narrow set of performance that proved themselves toublesome on the years following the end of Warsaw Pact.

                                          In the end, it has been a project that grew old early.

                                          Comment

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