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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • TomcatViP
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Nov 2011
    • 6109

    I think it could be a spin-off from the automated modes in manuvre (pilot assist or Sega mode* like I wrote once). Some of the moves that the plane does during airshow involve a lot of surface mouvements with some being completely counter-intuitive or impossible to ctrl manually. Especially in the yaw mode where differential Levcon and tailplane are massively used in contrary to the rudders. It is possible that some talk around this resulted in that interpretation. Well at least that is my own spin-off of the ...


    *The Sega mode would involve preselected manuvres selectable through HOTAS by the pilot.
    Last edited by TomcatViP; 22nd August 2017, 17:43.

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    • Sintra
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2007
      • 3849

      Yes, might be something like that.
      sigpic

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      • Vnomad
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • May 2011
        • 2859

        Originally posted by KGB
        The Mig 29/35 is simply the F-16 of the non US controlled world. Always has been. Always will be.
        Going by export figures, that would actually be the Mirage 2000.

        Comment

        • haavarla
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Dec 2008
          • 6697

          Jesus.. this isn't complex, even though many here seems to miss it.
          At a very early stage of the Mig-29 and Su-27 program its was decided the Mig-29 was to fill the light tactical fighter role and Su-27 the heavy Frontline interceptor role.

          Soviet had resources aviable for a light Twin engine fighter. And that's what happen. The thing would certainly stayed more relevant if Mig-29M would have been. But there is no point arguing with history. Break-up of S U screwed up everything. Mig-29 was certainly no exeption.

          It doesn't matter what people want to compare Mig-29 with.. its completely moot. Its the fighter Soviet designed for THEIR OWN airforce and their own requirements at the time.

          What it exported or how many produced means squat.
          Last edited by haavarla; 22nd August 2017, 18:50.
          Thanks

          Comment

          • haavarla
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2008
            • 6697

            Sputnik...

            Sukhoi Chief Test pilot Sergey Bodgan has spoken at lenght about the FCS of PakFa and Su-35S.
            There are automatic flight restoration mode should some control surface(or one engine) Fail in flight.

            There is also a safty mode if you are flying at a very low Altitude and try some idiot careless manuvere. The FCS would deny the command input.

            Call it a evolved autopilot. But it has nothing to do with unmanned flight..

            Jesus how stupidity floats around in Sputnik..
            Thanks

            Comment

            • KGB
              KGB
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2016
              • 1426

              @Vnomad

              There are 26 flags currently operating Mig 29's.

              There are 9 flags operating Mirage 2000's

              Comment

              • Vnomad
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • May 2011
                • 2859

                There are 26 flags currently operating Mig 29's.

                There are 9 flags operating Mirage 2000's
                Most of which retain MiG-29s in limited quantities of which an even smaller number are actually airworthy. Not exactly a fitting analogue to the F-16. Outside of the former-Soviet states, the only major operators are India & Poland. Four major operators for the Mirage 2000; India, Greece, Taiwan, UAE. (The F-16 of course is in a different league in that respect.)

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                • Levsha
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2006
                  • 2851

                  Marcellogo
                  the same Su-35S, despite his name, despite the fact that the first contracted batch of 48 has been fully consigned to VKS and a second one is ongoing, despite having been exported to China and above all despite having been used more than two years to beat the crap out of Isis and other assorted Salafi scums is still not officially Entered Service.
                  Well, it flew combat air patrols and fighter escorts missions, but I don't think it carried out any strike missions itself - certainly didn't beat the crap out of anyone? Over 250 F-35s have already been delivered already flying with almost half a dozen countries and it's only now officially entering service.

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                  • JSR
                    JSR
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Aug 2011
                    • 4976

                    Originally posted by Vnomad View Post
                    Most of which retain MiG-29s in limited quantities of which an even smaller number are actually airworthy. Not exactly a fitting analogue to the F-16. Outside of the former-Soviet states, the only major operators are India & Poland. Four major operators for the Mirage 2000; India, Greece, Taiwan, UAE. (The F-16 of course is in a different league in that respect.)
                    Iran and Syria are MIG29. India is not major operator of M2K as MIG29UPG and MIGK are more than twice the number with extensive infrastructure . I have doubt about flight worthy status of Taiwan . Egypt will become operator of MIG35. MIG35 has bright prospects.

                    Comment

                    • Sab3r329
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Apr 2016
                      • 91

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                      New strike munitions intended for UCAVs, perhaps also for other platforms.

                      Range up to 100km, mass 17- 50kg.

                      Comment

                      • sepheronx
                        Senior Member
                        • Jun 2015
                        • 320

                        @levash Yes, it did actually

                        Comment

                        • Marcellogo
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jun 2014
                          • 1838

                          Levsha, instead of making showing of your usual chauvinistic attitude, please just go to you tube and wander around, you would found in five minutes dozens of flicks of Su-35 carring bombs together with air to air armament. Or also use the corrisponding thread on this forum, there are lots of pictures of them also.
                          Every plane at Latakia airbase take part to strike mission, even the latest arrived Su-27SM3.

                          F-35 has completed the IOC in 2015 for the -B and in 2016 for the A version and is entered service on both USMC and Usaf just a few time after passing such a milestone.
                          Still they are doing just training and partecipating in tactical exercise while no one has been used operatively.
                          Let's add that having not passed the ot&t they are still in LRIP i.e. a phase that in the soviet/ russian practise didn't even exist.

                          Entering service for them imply that the plane has reached a status equivalent to the western FOC i.e. something the F-35 has still a long way to go.

                          Su-35 would have reached the status this years but their operative use in Syria has showed some glitch in the sealing of the intakes during take off, so design has notbeen freezed and the team working on it at the Sukhoi design bureau has been tasked to fix the problem before being disbanded.
                          Last edited by Marcellogo; 22nd August 2017, 22:26.

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                          • TR1
                            TR1
                            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 9819

                            https://lenta.ru/news/2017/08/22/mi28ub/

                            8 Mi-28UB for VKS this year.

                            https://lenta.ru/news/2017/08/22/ka52/

                            15 Ka-52 for Egypt this year.
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • TR1
                              TR1
                              http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                              • Oct 2010
                              • 9819

                              http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2802599.html

                              So, Indonesia buying 11 Su-35 for 1.14 billion USD. Half of the payment will be in goods.

                              http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2802399.html

                              Another 3 Su-30SM for the VMF. In service number for both VMF and VKS should hit 100 by the end of this year.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • MSphere
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 8983

                                Originally posted by Levsha
                                Well, it flew combat air patrols and fighter escorts missions, but I don't think it carried out any strike missions itself - certainly didn't beat the crap out of anyone? Over 250 F-35s have already been delivered already flying with almost half a dozen countries and it's only now officially entering service.
                                What you THINK is irrelevant.. If you bothered to spend mere three minutes searching, you would not have posted this message, anymore..
                                Last edited by MSphere; 23rd August 2017, 10:04.

                                Comment

                                • Levsha
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 2851

                                  http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2802599.html

                                  So, Indonesia buying 11 Su-35 for 1.14 billion USD. Half of the payment will be in goods.
                                  100 million USD apiece - is that the flyaway cost, or does it include training, spares and support?

                                  Msphere said that each Su-35 was going to sell for 28-30 million USD - how wrong he was...

                                  Comment

                                  • Arihant
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Apr 2017
                                    • 440

                                    @JSR
                                    $964m in early 2008 dollars and it does not include engines which are also in 2007 dollars. MIG-29 need separate set of pilot training and infrastructure and upgrades takes way longer than buy new Su-30MKI from production line. I bet $1.3b in 2007 could have given extra 40 Su-30MKI.

                                    http://www.pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=55262

                                    Deal 4(March 2007): In addition to licensed manufacture of 140 SU-30 aircraft by M/s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), a contact for procurement of additional 40 SU-30 MKI was signed with M/s HAL in 2007. M/s HAL would be procuring the technical kits from Russia and assembling the aircraft. The cost of the deal was Rs 9,036.84 crore. The aircraft were to be delivered in a phased manner between 2008-11. At an exchange rate of 44.2 in March 2007, that translates to a cost of $51.1 million for a single MKI.
                                    So, You cannot have bought more than 25 Su-30mki with 1.3 billion in 2007 dollars.

                                    As for seperate set of pilot training and infrastructure for MiG-29, they were already there since the mid 90s. We even have a comprehensive airframe overhaul facility for the MiG-29B-12 at Ozhar, the 11 Base Repair Depot of the IAF. Infrastructure ,spares stockpiling and the associated costs come into the scene when you are inducting a new type and the MiG-29B-12 have been operational with No 47 squadron since Dec,1987. What would we have done with the skilled manpower-the technicians,maintainers who maintained these beasts and kept them flightworthy after retiring the MiG-29 fleet ? The airframes didnt have many hours and it would have been outright foolish to pahse them out.

                                    And yes the upg upgrades are running behind schedule but it is to be expected. There isnt a single ac project here in India which is running on time. Even the Su-30mki production rate at HAL OZhar have slowed down from 14 previously to 12 for the last 2-3 years.

                                    IAF is a major operator of Mirage 2000. We currently have 49 of the Mirages and 61 MiG-29B-12 . And both the engine- M53 and the airframe of the Mirage 2000 are overhauled here in India in Bangalore.
                                    Last edited by Arihant; 23rd August 2017, 12:23.

                                    Comment

                                    • Arihant
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Apr 2017
                                      • 440

                                      Will someone pls start a new Su-57/Pak-fa thread ?

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                                      This photo has been taken in August. The ventral 101KS-O dircm is back.
                                      Last edited by Arihant; 23rd August 2017, 12:19.

                                      Comment

                                      • JSR
                                        JSR
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2011
                                        • 4976

                                        Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                                        100 million USD apiece - is that the flyaway cost, or does it include training, spares and support?

                                        Msphere said that each Su-35 was going to sell for 28-30 million USD - how wrong he was...
                                        Export prices have alot of profit margin . I presume it will include pilot training and some spares but not weopons.

                                        Comment

                                        • JSR
                                          JSR
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Aug 2011
                                          • 4976

                                          Originally posted by Arihant View Post
                                          @JSR



                                          http://www.pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=55262



                                          So, You cannot have bought more than 25 Su-30mki with 1.3 billion in 2007 dollars.

                                          As for seperate set of pilot training and infrastructure for MiG-29, they were already there since the mid 90s. We even have a comprehensive airframe overhaul facility for the MiG-29B-12 at Ozhar, the 11 Base Repair Depot of the IAF. Infrastructure ,spares stockpiling and the associated costs come into the scene when you are inducting a new type and the MiG-29B-12 have been operational with No 47 squadron since Dec,1987. What would we have done with the skilled manpower-the technicians,maintainers who maintained these beasts and kept them flightworthy after retiring the MiG-29 fleet ? The airframes didnt have many hours and it would have been outright foolish to pahse them out.

                                          And yes the upg upgrades are running behind schedule but it is to be expected. There isnt a single ac project here in India which is running on time. Even the Su-30mki production rate at HAL OZhar have slowed down from 14 previously to 12 for the last 2-3 years.

                                          IAF is a major operator of Mirage 2000. We currently have 49 of the Mirages and 61 MiG-29B-12 . And both the engine- M53 and the airframe of the Mirage 2000 are overhauled here in India in Bangalore.
                                          When you increase size of order you get economies of scale. Look at follow up Algerian Su-30MKA orders 10 years later. I don't expect HAL has same production efficiency as Irkut. I am sure there is different pilot training when cockpit is changed for MIG29UPG not to
                                          mention this multirole aircraft training compared to airdefence fighter.

                                          Comment

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