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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • verbatim
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2010
    • 261

    To Havarlaa:

    I do not support neither of the two propositions.

    My humble opinion is that Mig-29 found itself outclassed in the changing 90ies operational environment.

    Obviously, VVS was right in those dire times to keep whatever was flying and not totay obsolete.

    The point is not if the project was a failure, obviously it was not, and not if VVS was wrong keeping it in its inventory.

    The point is if tomorrow it would have sense to invest in it (i.e. purchasing new airframes), and if it has any real chance on the export market of tomorrow.

    The first point, IMHO is moot: the operating costs are not so cheaper than those of the Flanker family, so keep buying whatever version of the Flankers and quietely phase-out the Mig.

    The second point has been answered by the market itself: everybody and his aunt are choosing more and more Sukhois,, and less and less Migs.

    And that's a fact.

    Nor I'msuggesting to develop a new single engined fighter: I'm suggesting just that, if Mig-29 would have been designed from day zero with different and more flexible performances in mind, and possibly single engined, it could have offered some real cost savings along with better performances, and securing this way more interests in the export markets.

    Comment

    • TR1
      TR1
      http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
      • Oct 2010
      • 9826

      Well it is that cheap because of ruble-dollar value. Probably more useful to see how much it was pre-devaluation (if you really want to use dollars), plus unit prices don't mean that much. Every Russian plane the VKS was buying was in the magic 30-38 million USD range, it is just how they structure contracts. Doesn't include other gov assistance to the plant.

      Irkut's plan was to phase out Flanker production by 2020. Not sure if it will still happen, but I don't see MOD ordering more than a dozen-two dozen more air-frames for AF, and a couple dozen for VMF. There are some foreign contracts to finish out between then and now as well. I'd venture a guess post 2020 MOD will order another 48-56 Su-35s from Knaaz.

      Pristine Su-34 from NAPO, with the extra fence on the pods that Berkut mentioned:





      And looks like the bort that flipped:



      Tu-160s:



      sigpic

      Comment

      • TR1
        TR1
        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
        • Oct 2010
        • 9826

        Verbatim:

        Maybe.

        But then again most of the "light" single engine market is either:
        -Out of Russia's reach- in other word, NATO/affiliated captured, where politically it would have a hard time to go against F-16 or the few Gripen leases that happened.
        -Taken by super cheap Chinese MiG-21 knockoffs and the like
        -Went ahead and coughed up for cheaper Flanker variants in any case

        I don't think that giant of an opportunity was missed all in all.

        Also, let's see who ends up buying the Fulcrum before all is gone and done. It is undergoing one of its most important purchases at this very moment (Egypt).
        sigpic

        Comment

        • TR1
          TR1
          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
          • Oct 2010
          • 9826

          https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content...81130-6piy.htm

          Ka-32A11BC is being delivered for the first time to Turkey and Thailand. Unsure of the split, but 8 helicopter total.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • Arihant
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Apr 2017
            • 440

            @Haavarla, I was talking about using the original AL-41F as an interim engine for the PAK-FA instead of the AL-41F1 derived from the AL-31F. And not on the Flanker.

            Comment

            • paralay
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2005
              • 1418

              AL-41F (izd.20) - a large engine, for a fighter weighing 39 - 42 tons.

              Click image for larger version

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              Comment

              • sepheronx
                Senior Member
                • Jun 2015
                • 320

                @TR1
                I think they will have to order more than that for Su-35S for the RuAF in order to really replace their current inventory of Su-27's still in service. Unless they plan to upgrade all of those so that eventually they are replaced by the Su-57.

                Comment

                • Marcellogo
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 1840

                  I have one time said that I consider more probable and realistic than we found trace of extraterrestrial civilization prior than seeing the Russian to work into a single engine fighter.
                  They hae juust hit the jackpot with the blended wing podded engine configuration, that they have spent thirty years to further develop and that has still enough development potential to get into 6th generation, and you think that they would get back to a plane configuration that they have chose to completely get rid off?

                  The idea of a single engine for all the different fighting planes of a major air force could seem appealing at a first sight but no one is doing that: so be my guest, let's wait USAF to do it first, instead of putting two alternative engines on a same frame like it happened with F-16 (also the f-35 would have had it, i remind you).
                  Last edited by Marcellogo; 20th August 2017, 15:47.

                  Comment

                  • haavarla
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 6715

                    @TR1
                    I think they will have to order more than that for Su-35S for the RuAF in order to really replace their current inventory of Su-27's still in service. Unless they plan to upgrade all of those so that eventually they are replaced by the Su-57.
                    So what do you think VKS has done with the current produced Su-30SM and Su-35S contracts.
                    They are constantly replenishing their inventory.
                    Stuff gets mothballed, new stuff come in.

                    They have created some new Air Regiments as well, but also scrapped old ones.
                    The VKS has never been smaller in size that it is today.
                    Thanks

                    Comment

                    • sepheronx
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2015
                      • 320

                      Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                      So what do you think VKS has done with the current produced Su-30SM and Su-35S contracts.
                      They are constantly replenishing their inventory.
                      Stuff gets mothballed, new stuff come in.

                      They have created some new Air Regiments as well, but also scrapped old ones.
                      The VKS has never been smaller in size that it is today.
                      It is roughly the same I thought. So many left over jets from soviet times that never flew or barely could I wouldn't say count.

                      Adjustments are being made, and it looks like they aim to increase due to now wanting to train female pilots as well.

                      Anyway, I read around at other sites and got more or less what I was looking for. It was mentioned prior what exactly was set in stone for VKS by end of 2020 and it makes sense. Sort of.

                      Comment

                      • Arihant
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Apr 2017
                        • 440

                        Thank you Paralay.

                        Besides Russian made components like radar processor,digital signal processor etcetra, performance wise how is the Bars-R radar on Su-30SM different from the N011M Bars on our MKI and MKM.MKA ?

                        Comment

                        • Isengard
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2013
                          • 58

                          So many F-22 fans don't like hearing about how that plane isn't the greatest. Many source point to T-50 faster than F-22. Speed of at least 2600 km/ h here.

                          https://ria.ru/analytics/20150825/1206610642.html
                          Многофункциональный истребитель Т-50 способен завоевывать господство в воздухе, поражать широкий спектр воздушных, наземных и морских целей. Полная техническая информация об этом самолете доступна лишь узкому кругу специалистов. Из открытых источников известно, что Т-50 по размаху крыла и длине больше F-22 и меньше Су-27, обладает радиолокационной малозаметностью, сверхзвуковой крейсерской скоростью до 2600 км в час без использования форсажа, способностью маневрирования с большими перегрузками. Возможно, серийный образец будет значительно отличаться от прототипов.

                          РИА Новости https://ria.ru/analytics/20150825/1206610642.html
                          Some news about autonumous systems.

                          https://sputniknews.com/russia/20170...lane-computer/

                          Russias fifth-generation fighter jet, formerly known as the Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK FA), or Sukhoi T-50, has officially been named the Su-57. In an interview with Sputnik, aviation expert Viktor Pryadka said that the Su-57 is a computerized multifunctional complex capable of flying on its own.
                          Each such plane becomes a computer center which is able to decide exactly what type of arms and ammo it needs for a specific combat mission. In the UAV mode, the plane can reach its target much faster with overloads of up to 15 G, while the maximum overload a pilot can endure does not exceed 10 G, said Viktor Pryadka, the CEO of the Avintel Aviation Technologies Alliance.
                          The T-50 can do 15 G in autonomous mode.

                          Comment

                          • TR1
                            TR1
                            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 9826

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI_Y7bca6HE

                            Su-30SM practice routine before MAKS 2017. Personally, I found it more interesting than the actual airshow appearance.
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • Scar
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2015
                              • 682

                              @Isengard

                              Please, stop posting this BS.

                              Comment

                              • Lt Anderson
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2013
                                • 278

                                Are you a "F-22 fans who doesn't like hearing about how that plane isn't the greatest"?

                                Comment

                                • Scar
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Nov 2015
                                  • 682

                                  I am a person who *******ing tired of these BS numberswhich are based on the baseless rumours spreaded by one person among the Radioscanner.ru community few years ago. This is the same sort of BS as cool story about Donald Cook been jammed by Su-24 in Black Sea.

                                  Задрали уже эту невежественную херню всюду постить.

                                  Comment

                                  • haavarla
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2008
                                    • 6715

                                    @Lt
                                    Oh pls god.. stop poluting this thread with answering JSR and his siblings!
                                    Thanks

                                    Comment

                                    • Lt Anderson
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Oct 2013
                                      • 278

                                      Sorry.

                                      Comment

                                      • Distiller
                                        Talent on Loan from God
                                        • Oct 2003
                                        • 4760

                                        @ MiG-29: Classic manned counter-air is getting rare since the release points of stand-off weapons are increasingly so far out that a short-ish ranged counter-air fighter would be able to serve only a single intercept vector against a suspected launch platform, provided that the launch platform is detected early enough at all. Makes classical intercepts a thing of the past.
                                        "Distiller ... arrogant, ruthless, and by all reports (including his own) utterly charming"

                                        Comment

                                        • RadDisconnect
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jul 2013
                                          • 531

                                          A claim about g-load from speculative source interviewed by a nationalistic media group. Are you even trying at this point?

                                          Regarding criticisms of the MiG-29, I have to say I agree for the most part. In terms of capabilities, the MiG-29 really doesn't offer anything the Flanker can't do. Yet it doesn't seem to be much cheaper to operate, which makes its existence even more questionable in today's environment.
                                          Last edited by RadDisconnect; 21st August 2017, 11:19.

                                          Comment

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