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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • Berkut
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2011
    • 2216

    And MiG-25 had less thrust than MiG-31 and was faster, what is your point exactly?

    Comment

    • wilhelm
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2004
      • 1658

      Who cares?
      Discuss that unrelated stuff in another thread.
      This isn't an F-22 thread.

      Comment

      • FBW
        FBW
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2011
        • 3294

        Originally posted by haavarla View Post

        I'd say 17700kgf is BS.
        The Dynamic thrust is not the same as Static thrust, and all jet engines are measured in Static thrust.
        Where did anyone mention dynamic thrust? All figures are usually given for uninstalled static thrust at sea level.

        As for the rest, many statements have been made about the "true" thrust of the F119. You can put whatever number suits you, the official number is "35k class" and +/- a thousand lbs of thrust wouldn't make much difference when your talking about a 43,000lb fighter with 70,000lbs of augmented thrust.

        As someone pointed out, this isn't the F-22 thread and enough space has been devoted to that stupid YouTube "busting myths" video.

        Comment

        • TR1
          TR1
          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
          • Oct 2010
          • 9826

          This isn't an F-22 thread, but a few comments about the plane won't hurt anyone. Its actual relevant (see- F-15 and its possible vs in service) top speed is an interesting subject as from it we can glean something about all extensively RAM coated "5th gens".

          054:



          Couple of nice rears:



          sigpic

          Comment

          • haavarla
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2008
            • 6715

            Where did anyone mention dynamic thrust? All figures are usually given for uninstalled static thrust at sea level.

            As for the rest, many statements have been made about the "true" thrust of the F119. You can put whatever number suits you, the official number is "35k class" and +/- a thousand lbs of thrust wouldn't make much difference when your talking about a 43,000lb fighter with 70,000lbs of augmented thrust.

            As someone pointed out, this isn't the F-22 thread and enough space has been devoted to that stupid YouTube "busting myths" video.
            Before you post anything else of stupidity, take a look at F-15E acceleration Charts up to Mach 1.9

            Both Spurt and andraax has mentioned many times before that F-22 has not shown it self superior in climb rate or acceleration over F-15E.

            http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic....362337#p362337

            And yet we on occations see the monstrious claimed thrust on Both F135 and F119.. like its from a different world.

            Get a grip.

            We all know what P/W website has of thrust on the F135
            Thanks

            Comment

            • FBW
              FBW
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2011
              • 3294

              Originally posted by haavarla View Post
              Before you post anything else of stupidity, take a look at F-15E acceleration Charts up to Mach 1.9

              Both Spurt and andraax has mentioned many times before that F-22 has not shown it self superior in climb rate or acceleration over F-15E.

              http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic....362337#p362337

              And yet we on occations see the monstrious claimed thrust on Both F135 and F119.. like its from a different world.

              Get a grip.

              We all know what P/W website has of thrust on the F135
              The only stupidity being displayed is yours.
              One, show me where I claimed anything about the F-22's performance?
              Two, I am very familiar with the F-15E's flight manual, what I fail to see is the relevance to this conversation.
              Last, yes the thrust of the F135 is well known and posted by the manufacture (and I've never claim otherwise). The exact thrust of the F119 isn't.

              You are the one making b.s. statements here about what you "think" is the F119's true thrust. One of us has a well established reputation for pulling stuff out of their rear and expounding on things they have no clue about, and hint that poster starts with "H" not "F"
              Last edited by FBW; 14th August 2017, 14:46.

              Comment

              • JSR
                JSR
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Aug 2011
                • 4982

                Originally posted by Berkut View Post
                And MiG-25 had less thrust than MiG-31 and was faster, what is your point exactly?
                MIG25 is not faster as it can't sustain top speed. and need more maintainance . Material and aerodynamics of F22 are obsolete for sustain high speed.

                Comment

                • RadDisconnect
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jul 2013
                  • 531

                  There's uninstalled thrust, installed thrust, etc. We don't know anything about the F119, other than the fact that it's 35,000 lbf (156 kN) class, which can mean any of the above. The F-22 doesn't need 2*156 kN thrust to reach Mach 2, in fact at that altitude the dynamic thrust is less because of higher altitudes, so needs less than max sea level thrust to get to that speed. The 2*156 kN thrust (or more) is achieved at lower altitudes, and speed limit more from structural limitations, which I think for the F-22 is about 800 knots. Also, the F-22's operational limit is more set by materials, and the fact that Mach 2+ speeds is generally useless for an air superiority fighter. the Russians and Sukhoi reached the same conclusions for the PAK FA.

                  What's the rated thrust for the izd.30 anyways? Some articles repeatedly says 178 kN, usually without citation. PiBu says "16-17 tons". He also says the configuration is 3 stage LP and 5 stage HP compressor, and presumably single stage turbines. For comparison the 117 is 4 stage LP, 9 stage HP, F119 is 3 stage LP, 6 stage HP, the EJ200 is 3 stage LP, 5 stage HP, the YF120 is 2 stage LP, 5 stage HP. On the other hand, GE AETD prototype seems to be going the opposite direction when it comes to number of stages, with 3 stage adaptive LP, and 10 stage HP. Interesting to see how adaptive engines are actually adding stages (at least on the prototypes).

                  Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                  Before you post anything else of stupidity, take a look at F-15E acceleration Charts up to Mach 1.9

                  Both Spurt and andraax has mentioned many times before that F-22 has not shown it self superior in climb rate or acceleration over F-15E.

                  http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic....362337#p362337

                  And yet we on occations see the monstrious claimed thrust on Both F135 and F119.. like its from a different world.

                  Get a grip.

                  We all know what P/W website has of thrust on the F135
                  Spurts never claimed that, and simply checking the 2010 SAR for the F-22 shows it accelerates from Mach 0.8-1.5 at 30,000 ft in some 52 seconds, noticeably better than a clean F-15E (no CFT) with -229 engines. So look in the mirror before calling other stupid. And while Andraxxus puts out good commentary, he's simply wrong about the F-22 having a pitot inlet like the F-16. It doesn't, it's a 3D external compression inlet with the upper inboard corner generating a pair of oblique shocks, i.e. much better than what a pitot inlet can do.

                  I'm not going to address JSR's drivel, this guy believes in the delusion that the PAK FA can do Mach 3.
                  Last edited by RadDisconnect; 15th March 2019, 07:28.

                  Comment

                  • Scar
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2015
                    • 682

                    Comment

                    • Austin
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2003
                      • 6506

                      105 Years of Russian Airforce : In Photos

                      http://fotografersha.livejournal.com/919496.html
                      "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                      Comment

                      • TR1
                        TR1
                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 9826

                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • TR1
                          TR1
                          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 9826

                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • haavarla
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 6715

                            Wenting fuel?
                            Thanks

                            Comment

                            • stealthflanker
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2015
                              • 1026

                              yep, dump and burn baby

                              Comment

                              • Austin
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Oct 2003
                                • 6506

                                Russia’s First MALE UAV Is Revealed
                                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

                                Comment

                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6122

                                  The Orion features an electro-impulse de-icing system and other innovative solutions enabling it to operate in an extended area of climatic conditions
                                  Quote:

                                  The EIDI system uses electromagnetic coils underneath a rigid or semi-rigid icing-prone surface to produce an impulsive force sufficiently large to debond and expel the ice. A variation of the EIDI system has been commercialized by IDI with Cox & Company
                                  (2007)

                                  Click image for larger version

Name:	ElectricPulseIceProtectionSystem - EPIPS.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	46.5 KB
ID:	3676285

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    The basic idea is 80 years old.. patented in 1937.. the question is where is it being deployed..

                                    Comment

                                    • TomcatViP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 6122

                                      I wonder if a Business jet application would still be seen as a valid innovation in the Military industry, everywhere on the planet. It's not an innovation as stated. That was the point.

                                      On the other hand, a 1200kg drone with 400kg payload that can fly 24+ hours up to 25000ft in artic conditions is a real achievement that don't need any excess of pompous comments (They would need a more serious sat datalink).

                                      Nordic Drones are a challenge with niche market by itself. Think North pole and Antarctic etc...
                                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th August 2017, 14:04.

                                      Comment

                                      • eagle
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jan 2000
                                        • 2382

                                        Wenting fuel?
                                        Afterburners failed to light.
                                        Pictures of that happening at MAKS have been posted in the PAK-FA thread.
                                        How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                                        Yngwie Malmsteen

                                        Comment

                                        • Isengard
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Dec 2013
                                          • 58

                                          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-22/568787001/

                                          SU-57 faster than F-22 as admitted by US media.

                                          The Russian air force will soon get the first batch of its much-anticipated, supersonic fighter jets, but at least one U.S. expert is not impressed.

                                          United Aircraft Corporation CEO Yuri Slyusar told the Russian news agency Tass that a pre-production batch of about a dozen jets, recently named Su-57s, will be made available to military pilots in advance of final design work. That's expected to be completed in 2019.

                                          "The plane has got its name like a child after the birth," Air Force Commander-in-Chief Viktor Bondarev told Rossiya 24 TV Channel. "Pilots will be learning to operate it."

                                          Bondarev called the Su-57 a wonderful machine at an aviation expo last month, and the jet has received an extensive promotional push from Russian state media, Newsweek reported. Richard Aboulafia, vice president of the defense market analysis firm Teal Group, was not buying the hype.

                                          "The Russians really like talking big, but the cash and technology just don't seem to be there," Aboulafia told USA TODAY.


                                          Russian state media has reported the Su-57's maximum speed at 1,600 mph, which would be slightly more than the F-22 Raptor. Newsweek reported the Su-57's missile range, based on the information available, also exceeds the F-22.

                                          Every country probably wants planes such as this, and we have them, Bondarev said of the Su-57.

                                          Aboulafia, however, says Russia must create new technology, particularly engine technology, to meet reach the specifications it is claiming.

                                          "They still need to find the cash to fund the development of the complete version of this aircraft," he said. "They've been trying for quite some time."

                                          Comment

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