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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • JSR
    JSR
    Rank 5 Registered User

    Originally posted by haavarla View Post
    Well now we are moving into the politics of matter. Yes i think we can all agree on that US is expansionist in their nature and thereby use their military might as a tool.
    While i wont go into the morality of things. I think we can say USA started this in WW2 with the massive Marines deployment in Pacific. After that it was Korea, then Vietnam.
    What i mean is the logistic capability to deploy huge amount of material and troop over sea like we saw in Vietnam, DS too for that matter, that is something Russia cannot do cause they lack the capability.
    Russia do have a large air transport fleet on paper, but i would question its reaction and operation.

    And while talking about Navy capability, remember the Mistrales? If those would have happen, how many was it in total, four? That would be several billions of $$$
    Its not as if Russia don't want them(the capability). Cause they do.
    If Russia was with south Vietnam than south Vietnam will definitely would have won. by Vietnam time Soviets were sufficiently recovered from WW2 and only simplified Soviet weopons and systems can win war. Mistral would add very little to syrian compaign and more likely favour to French
    Don't worry NATO used Volga transport .

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    • JSR
      JSR
      Rank 5 Registered User

      Originally posted by MSphere View Post
      I don't care about used terms, frankly..


      Russia does not need a fleet of carriers. The geographic situation is completely different, Russia spans throughout the whole Eurasia. Whatever country of interest is located there, they can easily reach using other means. The only continent Russians would not be able to deploy onto effectively are the Americas, especially Latin America.
      Aircraft carrier can't sustain without friendly bases . Latin America does not have strong airdefence or airforce . Russian Navy ships sufficiently protected against them. Russia need one friendly country there for airbase . In fact it's far easy to send MIG29k down there. Countries are now divided in only two categories either like China where 10 carrier at one place will not work or others where one is sufficient provided rest of flotilla and bombers can smash all fixed targets with stand off weopons.

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      • TR1
        TR1
        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd



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        • Lt Anderson
          Rank 5 Registered User

          Wonderful!

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          • Austin
            Rank 5 Registered User

            Dont see any news on first flight of MS-21 so far.
            "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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            • nkvd
              Rank 5 Registered User

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              • Austin
                Rank 5 Registered User

                https://topwar.ru/116637-ms-21-pervyy-polet.html

                "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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                • haavarla
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  A Congratulation is in order.
                  Thanks

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                  • Dr.Snufflebug
                    Boggleboople snufflebug

                    It's been a fairly good month for Russian aerospace.

                    First proper flight tests of Ka-62
                    Second phase of PD-14 in-flight testing completed
                    First flight of MC-21-200

                    Plus a lot of other smaller things here and there, such as the sneak peeks of the Altius and Orion drones.
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                    • Dr.Snufflebug
                      Boggleboople snufflebug

                      The Yak-130 chase plane performed some mellow aerobatics to conclude today's event, great:

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                      • mikoyan
                        Rank 5 Registered User

                        Technology wise how good is that MS-21 ?

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                        • Dr.Snufflebug
                          Boggleboople snufflebug

                          Originally posted by mikoyan
                          Technology wise how good is that MS-21 ?
                          Somebody with more insight can probably fill you in on this properly, but the main thing about this plane is that it's all supposed to be pretty much state-of-the-art, with a spanking fresh FBW system, unique composite wings and wingbox (made by AeroComposit using a cutting edge out-of-autoclave technique), modern geared turbofans that match the best in the world and so on and so forth.

                          This unlike the Sukhoi SSJ or the Comac C919, that while somewhat competitive (at least the former has found some success here and there) most things about them is "legacy" and not up there with the latest stuff that for example Boeing and Airbus are doing.

                          The plane that flew today is powered by Pratt & Whitneys:


                          ...which is all good, but if the PD-14 turns out to be what people are hoping for, then it's a major achievement on Russia's part that really adds to the significance of the MS-21, and finally something to boast about that is not military (first time in thirty years or something)...

                          The PD-14 has been flying for quite a while on the Il-76LL and the second phase of flight testing was concluded a little while ago with good results from what I hear, so let's keep some fingers crossed.
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                          • nkvd
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            you cant have too much of a good thing so one more video
                            Last edited by nkvd; 28th May 2017, 15:55.

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                            • Austin
                              Rank 5 Registered User

                              ...which is all good, but if the PD-14 turns out to be what people are hoping for, then it's a major achievement on Russia's part that really adds to the significance of the MS-21
                              MS-21 designer had mentioned in an interview that PD-14 will give MS-21 1 % fuel advantage over PW1400
                              "A map does you no good if you don't know where you are"

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                              • JSR
                                JSR
                                Rank 5 Registered User

                                I read it has 6500 km range in basic version with higher speed than competitors not.Thegger version will be more. This thing is approaching wide body market.

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                                • Dr.Snufflebug
                                  Boggleboople snufflebug

                                  Originally posted by Austin
                                  MS-21 designer had mentioned in an interview that PD-14 will give MS-21 1 % fuel advantage over PW1400
                                  I don't think the PD-14 is any better than the PW, at least on the tech side it isn't, with one generation older fan/compressor blades, a simpler design overall and so on. It may at least partially make up for that with its smaller diameter, lesser weight and lesser price, plus its (envisioned) superior serviceability (ease and cost).

                                  But that's up for debate at a later point, it's impossible to tell at this stage. The main thing is that if it really does live up to its projected specifications, it meets the criteria for being a modern and properly (even internationally) competitive engine for civilian aircraft in this class, despite not being absolutely cutting-edge, and that's a big leap forward from pretty much everything Russia has built in the past and builds at present (the PowerJet doesn't count). On the military side of things, Russia has stayed in the game rather well but its aerospace industry needs diversification of this kind.

                                  The PD-14 design is obviously a platform to improve upon in the future as well, with for example next-gen composite blades and what not, so there's that angle to consider too. Russian aerospace needs this kind of stuff, it's been stuck in a rut rehashing obsolete tech for far too long.
                                  Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug; 28th May 2017, 20:48.
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                                  • TR1
                                    TR1
                                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd

                                    VMF Su-30SM with Kh-29:



                                    Egyptian MiG-29:

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                                    • Trident
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      Originally posted by Austin
                                      MS-21 designer had mentioned in an interview that PD-14 will give MS-21 1 % fuel advantage over PW1400
                                      As Snufflebug says, not going to happen without some accounting gymnastics. Both the LEAP-1 and PW1000G have a couple of advantages in mainly propulsive efficiency (due to having a higher bypass ratio) which give them better fuel consumption (the smaller diameter LEAP-1B for the 737MAX is quite similar to the PD-14 in that regard, but it retains a small thermal efficiency lead from a higher pressure ratio thanks to having two more HPC stages).

                                      Since the shortfall is quite modest, one can probably come up with select flight profiles where the lower weight & drag of the PD-14 will edge out those drawbacks (high passenger count short range hops with relatively little time spent in cruise, basically), but overall it's slightly less efficient than its Western counterparts. Currently low oil prices might work in its favour in this regard if it can deliver on its reliability goals, but who knows what things will look like in 2-3 years time, when it will actually enter service?

                                      Originally posted by Snufflebug
                                      I don't think the PD-14 is any better than the PW, at least on the tech side it isn't, with one generation older fan/compressor blades, a simpler design overall and so on.
                                      Simplicity is good! Also, for a BPR of 8-9 hollow titanium blades are probably a good choice. I agree that lack of production-ready composite blades probably contributed (with coming architectures going far beyond that mark, skipping hollow Ti and going straight to composite would've been the future-proof approach), but you can rather credibly argue that composites don't quite justify the expense yet with this layout. I once more refer you to the GP7200, which despite GE involvement (who had just pioneered in-service composite fan blades on the GE90) went with thinner, sharper hollow Ti blades from P&W.

                                      Also, the PD-14 nacelle mirrors some LEAP-1C innovations which the PW1000G lacks (eletromechanically acuated O-duct thrust reverser).

                                      Originally posted by Snufflebug
                                      The main thing is that if it really does live up to its projected specifications, it meets the criteria for being a modern and properly (even internationally) competitive engine for civilian aircraft in this class, despite not being absolutely cutting-edge, and that's a big leap forward from pretty much everything Russia has built in the past and builds at present (the PowerJet doesn't count).
                                      I do think the SaM-146 counts, and the PS-90A was quite good when it originally came out (it's easy to forget that it is a late-1980s engine!) - it just never picked up enough pace to get sufficiently far down the learning curve, due to slow sales of its airframe applications.
                                      Last edited by Trident; 29th May 2017, 00:25.
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                                      • Dr.Snufflebug
                                        Boggleboople snufflebug

                                        Trident, all good points and I agree wholeheartedly. Mind you that in this case, I make a distinction between the Russian Federation and the RSFSR (and naturally, by extension the rest of the USSR) though. The USSR didn't lag behind in civilian airliners at all, in fact it found itself at the forefront a lot of the time in both general airliner development and their respective powerplants (Tu-114, Tu-104/124, Il-62, Il-86/96, all groundbreaking at the time in one way or another)

                                        Regarding the SaM-146, I'd say it's a stretch, dontcha think? It is a top notch engine for a plane the size and purpose of the SSJ for sure, and Saturn/Lyulka builds it in Russia, but they only developed the fan and compressors AFAIK, whereas the core/turbine and FADEC etc. is all French, and it's very much a one-off deal for the SSJ. No other applications even envisaged, right?

                                        Oh well, I am no authority on the matter. At any rate, we can agree that the MC-21 and the PD-14 are important, much more so than the largely "legacy" SSJ (though the SSJ probably broke some much-needed new ground as it finally made its way into the Western hemisphere with Interjet, CityJet, Brussels Airlines (on lease from CityJet) etc, something that will greatly help the prospects of UAC and the MS-21 in the future I think)
                                        Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug; 29th May 2017, 01:04.
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