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RuAF News and development Thread part 15

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  • stealthflanker
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2015
    • 1027

    Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
    Good to see some new birds.
    Is it final that the radar is M2E? There was a rumor (?) earlier about the Egyptian MiG-29s to have a Zhuk-MSE based phased array radar unit.
    I expect it would be the same Slotted planar array as Russian and Indian's MiG's.

    Those Zhuk MF phased arrays have kinda sketchy fate despite the promising capability.

    Comment

    • sepheronx
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2015
      • 320

      So whatever happened to the AESA radar?

      Comment

      • Scar
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 682

        Originally posted by sepheronx View Post
        So whatever happened to the AESA radar?
        Hardly anything may happen to thing which never existed.

        Comment

        • sepheronx
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2015
          • 320

          Originally posted by Scar View Post
          Hardly anything may happen to thing which never existed.
          There certainly was, and it was tested years ago during the Indian tender.

          So I will ask the question again for people more knowledgeable: What happened? I had to add scar to ignore list as his usual banter as well as **** poor knowledge on economics (while calling the rest wrong) was indication that it isnt worth my time reading his statements.

          My only assumption so far is that the modules are not in full production yet? Or are there other issues surrounding the AESA radar that I am not aware of?
          Last edited by sepheronx; 1st April 2017, 21:38.

          Comment

          • haavarla
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Dec 2008
            • 6715

            Originally posted by sepheronx View Post
            There certainly was, and it was tested years ago during the Indian tender.

            So I will ask the question again for people more knowledgeable: What happened? I had to add scar to ignore list as his usual banter as well as **** poor knowledge on economics (while calling the rest wrong) was indication that it isnt worth my time reading his statements.

            My only assumption so far is that the modules are not in full production yet? Or are there other issues surrounding the AESA radar that I am not aware of?
            There aren't much to go after. My 2cent, even VKS was not happy with the AESA. I couldn't reach requirements.. What else could it be?
            So it was back to R&D for the manufacturer of radar.

            Edit:
            Ofcourse it could also be a funding issue.
            We know Russia is working on a MKI and Su-34 upgrade including radars, also there is the continues work on PakFa radar. So much to do, so limited time and funding..
            What AESA radars will Russia prioritize? something tells me not on a limited production of Mig fighters.
            Last edited by haavarla; 2nd April 2017, 01:26.
            Thanks

            Comment

            • Scar
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 682

              Originally posted by sepheronx View Post
              There certainly was, and it was tested years ago during the Indian tender.
              Experimental prototype =/= working and serial produced device.

              Comment

              • KGB
                KGB
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2016
                • 1426

                Man.. That yeollowy brown camo with the blue underside just isn't doing it for me. Function over fashion though.

                Comment

                • JSR
                  JSR
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Aug 2011
                  • 4982

                  Originally posted by Scar View Post
                  Experimental prototype =/= working and serial produced device.
                  how exactly they experimental?. They are produced by experiance firm and certainly more prototype flew with it. Ruaf is used gigantic radars now in MIG31BM and Flankers not easy to replicate that performance in smaller plane. its bad press.

                  https://sputniknews.com/military/201...ussia-weapoms/
                  "Of course, there are, unfortunately, concrete examples. We did not have time to roll out our MiG-35 a unique aviation complex, and already there were articles, analytical materials that it's all old, etc. These are exactly elements of competitive struggle," Kozhin said.

                  Comment

                  • TR1
                    TR1
                    http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 9826

                    lol @ calling Scar's economic knowledge bad when he was responding to utter delusions from KGB.

                    Zhuk-AE was never planned for MiG-29M2. Egypt is buying M2s. End of story.
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • maurobaggio
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 521

                      Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                      There aren't much to go after. My 2cent, even VKS was not happy with the AESA. I couldn't reach requirements.. What else could it be?
                      So it was back to R&D for the manufacturer of radar.

                      Edit:
                      Ofcourse it could also be a funding issue.
                      We know Russia is working on a MKI and Su-34 upgrade including radars, also there is the continues work on PakFa radar. So much to do, so limited time and funding..
                      What AESA radars will Russia prioritize? something tells me not on a limited production of Mig fighters.
                      Both Russia and other countries has not been opted for PESA radars with fixed antennas for the Su 30M, since the PESA version with fixed antenna of the N001VE / VEP radars for the Su 30MKK as well as the modernized version of the N001 for Su 27SM were not selected by any country, while the PESA version with gimbals support antenna of the N011M radars has been selected by several countries for the Su 30SM and Su 30MK/I/A/M.


                      Perhaps the reason for this should be the cost / benefit ratio has been adopted by Russia and other countries for PESA radar of the multirole fighters Su-30M, since this has been demonstrated that the better capabilities of a fixed-antenna PESA radar did not justify the greater complexities and costs about the legacy models of the N001 models with simple Casssengrain antennas. Otherwise the PESA with movable or gimbals antennas of the N011M Bars has been chosen for the more for the Su-30MK/I/M/A and Su-30SM instead of the version with slotted planar array of the N011.

                      The Su-34 has been equipped with fixed PESA antenna of the radar B004, but the Su-34 are not a multiroles fighter , indeed its is an attack aircraft.

                      The same cost / benefit concept should have been applied about the AESA with fixed antennas and PESA in movable( gimbals) support, although the AESA radars with fixed antennas has been show superior capabilities in several respects such as ECM and maximum range in relation to PESA, however, if PESA radars has been assembled in movable supports, it will cover wider angles for the detection of aircraft in both BVR and even WVR combat, as well as against ground targets in CAS/BAI missions with less complexity and cost than AESA with fixed antennas.

                      The Zhuk AESA radar with MiG-35 had been show in 2007 it were under development with a fixed antenna in reason of the dimensions and weight of the modules.Otherwise the main reason for the N035 Irbis radar from Su-35S show in 2008 with PESA movable antenna instead the AESA could have been observed in the video below:




                      With the development of AESA radars with movable antennas the cost/benefit ratio will probably favor this in relation to PESA in Russia like it has been show in the AESA radar with movable antennas from Typhoon:



                      I have been found out quite interesting the modernization program of the Ka-27M naval helicopter, once it has been received the AESA Kopyo radar, in fact if this is correct these AESA Kopyo radars should be multi-modes, which it would allow the Ka-27M to carry out new missions like AEW in the protection of vessels and to locate and designate shore targets for the artillery and cruise missiles from the vessels.

                      Comment

                      • JangBoGo
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 1510

                        Originally posted by Scar View Post
                        Hardly anything may happen to thing which never existed.
                        Originally posted by Scar View Post
                        Experimental prototype =/= working and serial produced device.
                        That was an eye opener!
                        Utilizing your theory, I just realized that PAK-FA/T-50 doesn't exist!
                        I fear utilizing this theory of yours across various other Russian military programmes.

                        Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                        There aren't much to go after. My 2cent, even VKS was not happy with the AESA. I couldn't reach requirements.. What else could it be?
                        So it was back to R&D for the manufacturer of radar.
                        Can you guide me to any reports/documents which details the above highlighted part and its current status?
                        I was not able to find any good article/reports on the status of the radar and its previous test/performance reports. So just asking if you have come across any.
                        As far as I understood, like many other Russian mil projects, the main issue has been lack of funding.
                        Last edited by JangBoGo; 2nd April 2017, 05:45.

                        Comment

                        • haavarla
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 6715

                          Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                          Can you guide me to any reports/documents which details the above highlighted part and its current status?
                          I was not able to find any good article/reports on the status of the radar and its previous test/performance reports. So just asking if you have come across any.
                          As far as I understood, like many other Russian mil projects, the main issue has been lack of funding.
                          No i don't. As i said, i'm speculating.
                          But wasn't there some reports that the IAF was not too impressed with the AESA radar on the Mig-35 in MMRCA tender?
                          I'm only going by some logic.

                          The Mig AESA gave too little bang for the bucks. Hense Russia moved on concentrate their effort on other programs.

                          There are several very imortant ones coming up. the modernization of Su-34 is highly needed. The first aircraft built to production standard made its first flight on 28 December 1994.[18] It was fitted with a fire-control system, at the heart of which was the Leninets OKB-designed V004. So you can see that at its core its an old architecture radar.

                          And also there is big bucks to be had in the upcoming super MKI contract for Russia. Makes sense to put resources into a AESA radar that you could export to a large Flanker fleet as well as your own large Flanker fleet.
                          And then you have the M036 radar for PakFa. Very important they get it right..
                          Last edited by haavarla; 2nd April 2017, 12:55.
                          Thanks

                          Comment

                          • Scar
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2015
                            • 682

                            Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                            That was an eye opener!
                            Utilizing your theory, I just realized that PAK-FA/T-50 doesn't exist!
                            As a serial produced and ready-to-use combat system? Yep, it doesn't exist.

                            Comment

                            • haavarla
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 6715

                              Some hi-res Flanker display:

                              https://youtu.be/giiNeRdBt6k
                              Thanks

                              Comment

                              • Scar
                                Senior Member
                                • Nov 2015
                                • 682

                                Originally posted by haavarla View Post
                                Some hi-res Flanker display:

                                https://youtu.be/giiNeRdBt6k
                                Man, are you ok? You posted nearly the same video just a week ago.
                                Last edited by Scar; 2nd April 2017, 13:25.

                                Comment

                                • haavarla
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Dec 2008
                                  • 6715

                                  Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                  No this is not the same.
                                  Thanks

                                  Comment

                                  • JSR
                                    JSR
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Aug 2011
                                    • 4982

                                    Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                    As a serial produced and ready-to-use combat system? Yep, it doesn't exist.
                                    MIG35 hasn't been delivered so saying it does not meet requirements is premature.

                                    Comment

                                    • Scar
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2015
                                      • 682

                                      Originally posted by JSR View Post
                                      MIG35 hasn't been delivered so saying it does not meet requirements is premature.
                                      Let me remind you the initial question.

                                      So whatever happened to the AESA radar?
                                      You see? No word about MIG-35. Just about AESA radar, which is still a prototype in development.

                                      Comment

                                      • JSR
                                        JSR
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Aug 2011
                                        • 4982

                                        Originally posted by Scar View Post
                                        Let me remind you the initial question.



                                        You see? No word about MIG-35. Just about AESA radar, which is still a prototype in development.
                                        this your orignal statement. any one who has learned english well will think it never existed. The better statement to make it is that it hasnt been delivered yet in final form. and who knows what that final form is in year 2019.

                                        Hardly anything may happen to thing which never existed.
                                        Its a continous competition with Flanker series who are in much higher yearly production and much wider pilot base now for quick induction. if one F-35 pilots takes $10m than even more efficient Ruaf will still need half to a million dollar for pilots.

                                        http://www.janes.com/article/69191/r...lanker-details
                                        Nikolai Novichkov, Kuala Lumpur - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
                                        31 March 2017
                                        Russia reveals Su-30SME export 'Flanker' details
                                        "The Su-30SME is an upgraded modern platform based on Russian equipment," Demchenko said. "As the basic Russian Su-30SM version develops, the capabilities of the export Su-30SME will also expand

                                        Comment

                                        • Scar
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Nov 2015
                                          • 682

                                          Originally posted by JSR View Post
                                          this your orignal statement. any one who has learned english well will think it never existed.
                                          For serial produced weapons systems, as MIG-29M2 for Egypt, Zhuk-A is still doesn't exist, isn't in production and can't be installed on the actual weapon systems...because it never existed as a tested and serial produced module for the actual weapon systems as MIG-29M2. See? I was right.

                                          You just need to separate your wishful thinking and the "Legends of Tommorow" from reality. In reality, there is no such a weapon module as FCR Zhuk-A. There are only some prototypes in development with unclear level of their readiness even for the State Trials, which they still not passed yet.

                                          Comment

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