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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • Spitfire9
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jul 2008
    • 2761

    Originally posted by swerve View Post
    AFAIK the French deferred deliveries are convenient for the French budget, & the French had been keeping up orders just to maintain a viable production schedule.

    Wouldn't necessarily apply to the Swedes, of course.
    Apparently the SwAF Gripen C frames have a lot of hours left on them so giving export deliveries priority would not pose problems. This according to flightglobal link given by topspeed above.

    @JacobS Thanks for the info,
    Sum ergo cogito

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    • TomcatViP
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2011
      • 5856

      The main problem faced by the Swede is their low number of airframe... and available pilots. They can get some T/x fitted with Air policing cap and just make for the delay as efficiently (a T/X will certainly outdog a Gripen; so when you'd have to go visual, it could be better to be flying the former than the latter).

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      • topspeed
        Get on uppah !
        • Jan 2009
        • 2592

        Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
        The main problem faced by the Swede is their low number of airframe... and available pilots. They can get some T/x fitted with Air policing cap and just make for the delay as efficiently (a T/X will certainly outdog a Gripen; so when you'd have to go visual, it could be better to be flying the former than the latter).
        TX is cool...but hardly M2 mover like the Gripen; https://www.defensenews.com/digital-..._source=clavis
        If it looks good, it will fly good !
        -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


        http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

        Comment

        • JakobS
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Aug 2015
          • 153

          Originally posted by topspeed View Post

          So will the first be delivered this year as planned ?
          No, the first delivery will be 2020 according to the government. Saab however still claims it will be 2019, but they have started talking about different "definitions" and "meaning" of delivery, so obviously the government is right in this case.

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          • JakobS
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2015
            • 153

            Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
            The main problem faced by the Swede is their low number of airframe... and available pilots. They can get some T/x fitted with Air policing cap and just make for the delay as efficiently (a T/X will certainly outdog a Gripen; so when you'd have to go visual, it could be better to be flying the former than the latter).
            There is no shortage of airframes in SwAF. Obviously the number is to low if you ask me, but the number is as high as it is politically decided to be.

            If the politicians were to raise the number of airframes in the future (which is likely) there will be no shortages of Gripen airframes. There is still A/B's left and the C/D's have lot's of lifetime left in them if they are to be kept longer.

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            • Spitfire9
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jul 2008
              • 2761

              Originally posted by JakobS View Post

              There is no shortage of airframes in SwAF. Obviously the number is to low if you ask me, but the number is as high as it is politically decided to be.

              If the politicians were to raise the number of airframes in the future (which is likely) there will be no shortages of Gripen airframes. There is still A/B's left and the C/D's have lot's of lifetime left in them if they are to be kept longer.
              I recall that when Sweden first ordered 60 Gripen E there was talk of a further 10 being added. When you talk of raising the number of airframes, are you referring to that?

              Also, do you happen to know what is the purpose of retaining any A/B frames? Are these stock to be used for conversion to C/D if SAAB gains another customer for a Gripen C sale or lease? If that is the idea, won't it be much quicker and cheaper to offer SwAF C's once E's are being delivered to the air force?

              Thanks for any info.
              Last edited by Spitfire9; 23rd February 2019, 07:26.
              Sum ergo cogito

              Comment

              • JakobS
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Aug 2015
                • 153

                Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post

                I recall that when Sweden first ordered 60 Gripen E there was talk of a further 10 being added. When you talk of raising the number of airframes, are you referring to that?
                It's not really in the cards yet, even if it may materialise. Defence white papers happen every 5 years here, last one was 2015. They are about to release another one this year for 2020-2025. Another 10 Gripen E's won't really be in the cards until the next white paper for 2025-2030.

                But I'm not sure the same logic is applied anymore. Back when it was decided about adding 10 more planes everyone here in Sweden (everyone not interested in defence matters) was still pretty damaged from the "everlasting peace thinking" from the 90's.

                Back then in 2015 we were still suposed to reduce our Air Force to only 60 planes. When Crimea happened everyone lost it and politicians quickly made all kind of different damage control. Promising another 10 planes so we would have 70 planes was one of them.

                That logic dosen't apply anymore and there is no talk about reducing the size of the Air Force anymore. The C/D will keep flying here for a long time to come. So I don't think there is any need for adding another 10 more planes to the order when we have around 100 spare Gripens that can fly for another 20 years.

                What have been leaked so far from the working group handling the upcoming 2020 white paper is that all Gripen D's will be kept and used as school planes in the future. Also the Air Force is not to drop it's number so at least 40 Gripen C's will be kept. There have also been talk from the Air Force that they need 120 Gripen in 8 divisions for the future, so maybe even more C's will be kept, but that we will probably not see until the 2025 white paper (training pilots and crews for a larger Air Force however is not something that just happens over a night, even if politicians seems to think/wish so).

                IMO the best way would be to only order 60 Gripen E's and keep as many C's as needed. Then enter a project with either Brittain or France/Germany. That new plane can replace the C's in the late 2030's.

                Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                Also, do you happen to know what is the purpose of retaining any A/B frames? Are these stock to be used for conversion to C/D if SAAB gains another customer for a Gripen C sale or lease? If that is the idea, won't it be much quicker and cheaper to offer SwAF C's once E's are being delivered to the air force?
                Well they are still an asset, so better to keep them than to just scrap them. If Saab gains another customer for C/D's then parts of these last planes can be used to keep the cost down. The engines for an example does not have many hours on them.

                As of right now these planes are however being harvested for the first Gripe E's in order to save the planes that are operational in the Air Force today. So all the components that is the same as in the E will be taked (for an example the ejection seat).

                I don't really think selling C/D's from the SwAF's inventory is an option anymore.

                EDIT: When I say we need to join one of the future fighter projects in Europe my preference is strongly for the British one.
                Last edited by JakobS; 23rd February 2019, 20:35.

                Comment

                • topspeed
                  Get on uppah !
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 2592

                  Among other tests Gripen E has released the main external fuel tank.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by topspeed; 14th March 2019, 14:28.
                  If it looks good, it will fly good !
                  -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                  http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  • TomcatViP
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 5856

                    And nobody on Twitter to claim that this is the one found in Kashmir? Unbeatable proof shall we say

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