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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • Loke
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2008
    • 3302

    Gripen C simulator:

    http://www.janes.com/article/65463/i...KB-hIw.twitter

    Comment

    • Loke
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jun 2008
      • 3302

      Swedish defence and security group Saab has announced the opening of a new office in Manila to develop its business activities in the Philippines.

      Saab said in a press release on 14 November that the Manila office - its 10th country office in the Asia-Pacific - will be led by Carl-Erik Leek, who was appointed head of subsidiary Saab Philippines earlier this month.

      The company added that key future business opportunities for Saab in the Philippines include the Gripen fighter aircraft, naval combat systems, maritime and air traffic management systems, and training systems and solutions.
      Read more: http://www.janes.com/article/65493/s...lippine-office

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      • Loke
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jun 2008
        • 3302

        Although Brazil is a partner in the development of the A-Darter fifth generation air-to-air missile, Denel Dynamics only recently received a contract to integrate the missile onto the Brazilian Air Force’s Gripen fighter jets.

        According to the Denel annual report for the 2015/16 period, Denel Dynamics received a contract to “integrate the missile onto the Brazilian FX2 aircraft”.
        The Denel annual report also noted that the follow-on contract for the production of A-Darter for the South African Air Force that was placed towards the end of the previous financial year is progressing well. The missile is being integrated onto the South African Air Force’s Gripen fighters and Hawk Mk 120 lead-in fighter-trainers. The SA Air Force ordered the missile in March 2015. Deliveries of operational missiles is expected in 2017.
        Full story: http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.ph...ace&Itemid=107

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        • Loke
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2008
          • 3302

          Swiss Defence Minister Guy Parmelin has announced a fighter jet strategy that involves refurbishing current planes for half a billion francs and laying the groundwork for purchasing new ones by 2025.*
          The scope of the evaluation of new planes remains to be determined, with the possibility of limiting it to three jets (Gripen, Eurofighter and Rafale models) or just one of those three.

          In any case, Parmelin foresees choosing the new planes by 2020 and obtaining funding for the purchase by 2022. The jets should become operational between 2025 and 2030 under the defence ministers plan.
          Read more: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-plan...-plan/42609992

          Will Gripen E win once more, or will Rafale take it away?

          Comment

          • obligatory
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2008
            • 7043

            this time around gripen E is metal rather than paper specs, i cant see how they can lose

            Comment

            • Spitfire9
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jul 2008
              • 2834

              Originally posted by Loke View Post
              Read more: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-plan...-plan/42609992

              Will Gripen E win once more, or will Rafale take it away?
              To me the neat and economical solution solution would be to have a one type air force, if possible. Gripen E will be flying by the time the evaluation starts so would not be a paper plane but a plane where the performance is known. It could replace both F-5 and F-18. If Switzerland ordered 40+ to replace F-5 and F-18, local assembly would make much more sense than it would have done when the proposal was to buy 22.

              If Rafale were chosen to replace the F-18, that still leaves the need to replace F-5. I can't see the Swiss public accepting the expense of Rafale replacing F-5.
              Sum ergo cogito

              Comment

              • Sintra
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Aug 2007
                • 3849

                Originally posted by Loke View Post
                Read more: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-plan...-plan/42609992

                Will Gripen E win once more, or will Rafale take it away?
                The Swiss air force might has well go directly to SAAB and give them the contract. The other two are there to make SAAB run for it.
                sigpic

                Comment

                • Loke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 3302

                  Sweden's Saab and Embraer Defense & Security opened the Gripen Design Development Network (GDDN) at the Brazilian aviation unit in Gavio Peixoto (SP) on Tuesday, the 22nd. The GDDN will develop technology for the Gripen NG fighter in Brazil for Saab and Embraer, along with Brazilian companies and institutions partners: AEL Sistemas, Atech, Akaer and the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), through its research department. In addition to the GDDN, Embraer's industrial complex in the interior of So Paulo for defense and security products will be the seat of production of the airplane and also of tests and about a thousand flight tests of the model mounted here. Built in 14 months, the GDDN now has 25 Brazilian engineers and 10 Swedish engineers and the number of employees will reach 150 in 2017, according to the director general of the program, Mikael Franzn. "More than 120 Brazilian engineers went to Saab, more than 25,000 hours of training have already been done and a total of 350 engineers, technicians and pilots will go to Sweden," he said. Between 2019 and 2024, 36 Gripen NG-28 fighters with one seat and 8 with two seats - will be delivered to the FAB. The technology transfer program is divided into 60 key projects, lasting up to 24 months. Embraer will play a leading role in the execution of the program and will carry out a large part of the production and delivery of the Gripen NG versions. The company will be responsible for a considerable amount of work in systems development, integration, flight testing, final assembly and aircraft deliveries.
                  Google translated from: http://www.diariodaregiao.com.br/eco...ripen-1.627781

                  This is what I call real ToT...

                  Comment

                  • MSphere
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 8983

                    +1

                    Comment

                    • TomcatViP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 6109

                      Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                      The Swiss air force might has well go directly to SAAB and give them the contract. The other two are there to make SAAB run for it.
                      There are two aspects here to which we should give more attention.
                      First, the budget for the upgrade is significant at 0.5 b$ for 34 planes. I don't know where I read it but many items would be directly piped down the SH line such as the mission computer and radar.
                      This makes the upgraded Hornet a hard competitor to beat in the next competition. Hard enough that a buy of Rafale or Typhoon would be hard to justify to the public (albeit the Typhoon dyn perfs might help).

                      Hence the second aspect:
                      By capping the next competition at a high level, won't it make easier for a less performing/lower cost fighter to sneak in the first place? That will sound more in line with a F5 replacement (thus that will be extended - good news and bad news with light fighter pilots having then a voice in this competition).

                      Respectively, a fighter bringing something that the upgraded Hornet can't provide, would have a chance if invited to the competition (E.g Stealth).

                      So, at the end, Sintra, I think you might have hit something. Let's call it the Gripchtein competition

                      Best,
                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 22nd November 2016, 20:54.

                      Comment

                      • Loke
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 3302

                        Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                        There are two aspects here to which we should give more attention.
                        First, the budget for the upgrade is significant at 0.5 b$ for 34 planes. I don't know where I read it but many items would be directly piped down the SH line such as the mission computer and radar.
                        This makes the upgraded Hornet a hard competitor to beat in the next competition. Hard enough that a buy of Rafale or Typhoon would be hard to justify to the public (albeit the Typhoon dyn perfs might help).

                        Hence the second aspect:
                        By capping the next competition at a high level, won't it make easier for a less performing/lower cost fighter to sneak in the first place? That will sound more in line with a F5 replacement (thus that will be extended - good news and bad news with light fighter pilots having then a voice in this competition).

                        Respectively, a fighter bringing something that the upgraded Hornet can't provide, would have a chance if invited to the competition (E.g Stealth).

                        So, at the end, Sintra, I think you might have hit something. Let's call it the Gripchtein competition

                        Best,
                        Switzerland may actually be one of those countries that will not go for the F-35....

                        Comment

                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                          First, the budget for the upgrade is significant at 0.5 b$ for 34 planes. I don't know where I read it but many items would be directly piped down the SH line such as the mission computer and radar.
                          Actually, it's not that much.. Roughly what India has paid for the MiG-29UPG upgrade.. Remember that the IAF Mirage 2000 upgrade was $2.5bil for 51 aircraft.

                          Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                          This makes the upgraded Hornet a hard competitor to beat in the next competition. Hard enough that a buy of Rafale or Typhoon would be hard to justify to the public (albeit the Typhoon dyn perfs might help).
                          Again, I am not sure if you can squeeze an AESA (presumably APG-79(V)X or APG-82 SABR) and corresponding rework into an unit price of ~15million..

                          Comment

                          • MSphere
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 8983

                            Originally posted by Loke View Post
                            Switzerland may actually be one of those countries that will not go for the F-35....
                            There will be more of them.. The so called 4+ Gen have caught second breath after the cost overruns and delays of the F-35.

                            Comment

                            • Loke
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 3302

                              "We have R $ 1.5 billion secured for the project to continue to follow your schedule, it's going very well. The project from the point of view of financing was very well formulated, then I see no major risks, in spite of our fiscal constraints ", said. "It would make sense not stop to think a project like this," the minister after the inauguration of the Center for Projects and Development Gripen (Gripen Design Development Network - GDDN) in Embraer Industrial Complex in Gavio Peixoto (SP).

                              The project of US $ 5.4 billion involves the development and production of 36 Gripen fighters from the Swedish in partnership with Embraer, 23 of which are assembled in Brazil, to be delivered between 2019 and 2024. Jungmann admitted that the PEC still in progress in Congress, but is expected to be approved in December, "creates a hardtop" to the budgets of folders, but assured: "I do not lose sleep about it."
                              Google translated from: http://www.istoedinheiro.com.br/noti...to-2017/434841

                              Comment

                              • maurobaggio
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 521

                                Originally posted by Loke View Post
                                What happened with the value of the contract from US $ 4.5 to US $ 5.4 Billions?
                                • The SEK currency has been appreciated against the US $.

                                • The change about the quantity of 15 fighters that should be manufactured in Brazil for 23.

                                • The contract value has been changed due the introduction of some other item in the Gripen E / F.

                                • Or it's just old information taken from some outdated source

                                .


                                What happened with the quantity of 15 fighters to 23 that could be assembled in Brazil?

                                In fact there would be 15 fighters that could be manufactured in Brazil, but due to the mention of the 23 still I should have a question about this, even its are reality the construction of the 23 Gripen E / F in Brazil of the 36 acquired from Sweden, then would be now 15 Gripen E and 8 Gripen F, but the Gripen F prototype will be developed in Sweden as well as built in Sweden, so:
                                • This prototype could have been included in the contract on the 8 Gripen F.

                                • Or this Gripen F will be owned by SAAB.



                                After all, if this prototype shall be included in the 8 Gripen F has been acquired in Brazil, the number of Gripen F fighters that will be built in Brazil would be less than 8.

                                Comment

                                • eagle
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2000
                                  • 2370

                                  Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                                  If Rafale were chosen to replace the F-18, that still leaves the need to replace F-5. I can't see the Swiss public accepting the expense of Rafale replacing F-5.
                                  The public doesn't necessarily have a say about what is an acceptable replacement. A public vote is not mandatory. Besides, the public didn't accept Gripen as an F-5 replacement either when asked about it, so...


                                  Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                                  The Swiss air force might has well go directly to SAAB and give them the contract. The other two are there to make SAAB run for it.
                                  I don't think so. It's between Rafale and Gripen, F-35 and EF are not likely, imho.
                                  How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                                  Yngwie Malmsteen

                                  Comment

                                  • TomcatViP
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Nov 2011
                                    • 6109

                                    Why would you replace 30+ upgraded Hornets with some Rafale. It doesn't make much sense unless we talk about a much upgraded block.
                                    If Rafale is let in as a favorite as you suggest, it will have to bring-in something radical with its cost.

                                    Comment

                                    • halloweene
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jan 2012
                                      • 4351

                                      Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                      Why would you replace 30+ upgraded Hornets with some Rafale. It doesn't make much sense unless we talk about a much upgraded block.
                                      If Rafale is let in as a favorite as you suggest, it will have to bring-in something radical with its cost.
                                      Beacause it is """vastly more capable""" ?

                                      Comment

                                      • Loke
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2008
                                        • 3302

                                        Originally posted by halloweene View Post
                                        Beacause it is """vastly more capable""" ?
                                        True, but if they really want something "vastly more capable" they could go for the F-35, and by the time the Swiss are going to buy the F-35 is most likely cheaper than the Rafale.

                                        It all comes down to requirements and cost; their budget is extremely tight and at the same time they need a minimum number of a/c.

                                        If they are willing to consider the F-35, then it will be between Gripen E and the F-35 with little room for the capable (but still less capable than F-35) Rafale.

                                        On the other hand if they do not want to include F-35 then most likely it will be a re-run between Rafale and Gripen E. Rafale won that technical eval but lost on other important parameters including cost, and therefore lost the whole competition. Perhaps sales of Gripen E to Brazil and India will lower the Gripen cost further? On the other hand Rafale sales to India and those ME countries I keep forgetting the names of, may lower Rafale costs somewhat as well.

                                        On verra.

                                        Comment

                                        • Loke
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jun 2008
                                          • 3302

                                          Updated 17.30), the new Saab JAS 39 Gripen E -monitoimihvittjn software are fully qualified backup before the next flight. Air Gripen E rises according to the latest information, only during the second quarter of 2017. launched in May 2016 a new Gripen fighter is involved in Finland HX-fighter project.

                                          According to Saab's Gripen E program is progressing according to plan. The Swedish manufacturer says its decision to carry out a full software competence assurance even before the first flight of the machine. The previous plan was to make backups in accordance with the parts of the defense industry in today's practice.

                                          As a result of this strategic decision, the next flight will be conducted in 2017. The first flight is carried out, when it is most beneficial for the whole program.

                                          The manufacturer, there is already involved, when the first flight phase to be made. So far, the exact date is not disclosed. Even the May roll out ceremony at the first flight were told to take place during the current year.

                                          "We optimize the development of the new plan, and we will deliver the machine to the customer on schedule accordingly.", Says Saab's Gripen program in the Nordic and Baltic Sales Director Magnus Skogberg

                                          "We could take the first flight of the original plan for the year 2016 but we wanted to challenge old practices and strengthen a whole for the new machine as well as to ensure delivery on time".
                                          "The first of the new Gripen E aircraft first flight is planned for the second quarter of 2017. As a first air rises to the current plans, the first graduate of 39-8 -koelentokone," continues Skogberg.
                                          "We are pleased with the progress of the Gripen program, E, and the first machine is delivered as planned in 2019".
                                          Google translated from: http://lentoposti.fi/uutiset/gripen_..._vuodelle_2017

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