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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • JSR
    JSR
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2011
    • 4976

    Originally posted by Broccoli View Post
    NATO is more capable than Russia and in future even more so. Russia is already turning into backwards nation but then again becoming a North Korea II seems to be Tsar Putin's master plan.
    Alteast he checking the pre serial built prototypes and keenly follow weopon developments and deployment.

    Comment

    • JSR
      JSR
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2011
      • 4976

      Originally posted by topspeed View Post
      I think the possibility get engines, missiles and weapons in the first place is the aim.
      that you can get anyway if you have the money and trained people to operate them effectively.


      USSR is flying with 55 years old bombers. I bet Finland and Sweden could rise the stardard of NATO considerably and thus it could become capable again ...). Also we cannot join the Warzaw Pact as it does not exist.
      old bombers give loiter time to newer missiles. why you have to join anything as alliance will decrease your capability. I bet if Sweden was in Nato it would have much smaller airforce and practically outdated. not that it matter now as trajectory of socio-political system is incapable of taking those tough decision.

      Comment

      • BlackArcher
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Dec 2010
        • 4290

        Originally posted by Loke View Post
        It seems Botswana has initiated talks with Sweden regarding around 8 Gripen C/D:

        http://www.affarsvarlden.se/hem/nyhe...cle3973548.ece
        Oh wow..they need Gripens to replace their 10 CF-5A and CF-5Bs? Seems like overkill..the neighbouring SAAF can barely keep its Gripens in the air, but these guys would want to spend hundreds of millions of $ to buy, operate and maintain a fast jet capability against a pretty much non existent threat..Seems like buying something like Super Tucanos would be a far more sensible decision.

        Comment

        • swerve
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2005
          • 13610

          South Africa could easily keep its Gripens - & much, much, more - fully operational, if it would (1) give the air force the money to do it with (it can very easily afford it), & (2) change its currently suicidal personnel policies.

          Botswana could probably afford to buy & operate a dozen second-hand Gripen C/D. It's rich by African standards: slightly richer per head than South Africa, or than the poorest European countries, such as Albania, Makedonia, Serbia & Bosnia - & much richer per head than Ukraine or Moldova.

          Whether it's wise is another matter.
          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
          Justinian

          Comment

          • Cuito
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2003
            • 230

            Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
            Why bother to pay for phone calls to a country on a different continent when they could call the next door country which has a bunch of unused Gripens for far less a minute?
            The South African Gripens are cycled in-and-out of service - it's rather misleading to call them unused.

            Comment

            • Cuito
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Aug 2003
              • 230

              Botswana and also Kenya are two African countries that could put some used Gripens to good use. Their air forces have pretty good service records and both countries are usually regarded as "responsible members" of the international community, so there should be little sanctions threat.

              I'm as much a fan of the Super Tucano as anybody. If Nigeria gets them, as mentioned, they should be effective there. Nigeria could use 3/4 squadrons of Tucanos, between training and strike aircraft. However, the fast jets have their place and in some roles (even in "Africa") they are irreplaceable.

              Comment

              • Loke
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jun 2008
                • 3302

                Time laps of final Gripen E assembly:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHRHdJm7Oc

                Comment

                • TomcatViP
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Nov 2011
                  • 6109

                  Originally posted by Loke View Post
                  Time laps of final Gripen E assembly:

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHRHdJm7Oc
                  It's always the same sequence that is pictured. This time we have to see the engine installation and roll out as a supplementary bonus (notice the petal airbrake that are still on).
                  Given that the fuselage was left idle on the production line for quite a considerable laps of time (in the film it's then interrupted by a two day sequence with a lot more of activity around the bird and none in the background), we have the right to be concerned with conformity or problem with the quality of the design.

                  And I am still wondering how they plan to remove the wing on the field when they need to move a damaged airframe around. The Grip supposed ability to operate from dispersed airfield doesn't match with this.
                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 14th May 2016, 20:09.

                  Comment

                  • Halo
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Apr 2009
                    • 212

                    @TomcatViP

                    Thnx for your concern, note that advanced manufacturing is extremely well developed in the environment in and around SAAB,

                    SAAB has been building fighter jets for decades,
                    Scania, the worlds most profitable truck manufacturer for decades
                    BIG automotive complex Scania, Volvo trucks, Volvo cars, lots of subcontractors.
                    ABB one of the leaders in industrial robots
                    Very strong IT environment
                    Ericsson being the leader in radio networks.

                    I also hope that you can get the majority of the good old rusting US manufacturing back in some decent order. A huge country like US has some many excellent manufacturing companies but the average is tragically poor.

                    My recommendation is that you use your expertise closer to home

                    Comment

                    • TomcatViP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 6109

                      Originally posted by Halo View Post
                      @TomcatViP

                      Thnx for your concern, note that advanced manufacturing is extremely well developed in the environment in and around SAAB,

                      SAAB has been building fighter jets for decades,
                      Scania, the worlds most profitable truck manufacturer for decades
                      BIG automotive complex Scania, Volvo trucks, Volvo cars, lots of subcontractors.
                      ABB one of the leaders in industrial robots
                      Very strong IT environment
                      Ericsson being the leader in radio networks.

                      I also hope that you can get the majority of the good old rusting US manufacturing back in some decent order. A huge country like US has some many excellent manufacturing companies but the average is tragically poor.

                      My recommendation is that you use your expertise closer to home
                      For your concerns, I drove a Saab for nearly 300k km admiring the quality of its manufacturing and clever engineering every single day I owned it, a car built in Gotheborg, a city where stand also one of my former employer with who I shared a great deal of satisfaction over our modest achievement in the auto industry (safety). I don't care that the bird is Swedish, French or built by chimps or in the US. I have presently no stake at it that will stain the honesty of my comments. I share simply my concerns only given what I see.
                      Now, if it happens that intellectual honesty is something that repulse you, you might not want to share with me over a public forum. Thanks in advance.

                      And by the way, I know my Swedes.
                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 15th May 2016, 23:51.

                      Comment

                      • Y-20 Bacon
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 2176

                        Originally posted by Loke View Post
                        Time laps of final Gripen E assembly:

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHRHdJm7Oc
                        waiting for the unveiling of the Gripen E this week is as painful as waiting for tonight's Game of Thrones

                        Hurry up and unveil it already..

                        damn white walker country

                        Comment

                        • FBW
                          FBW
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3295

                          Originally posted by Halo View Post

                          I also hope that you can get the majority of the good old rusting US manufacturing back in some decent order. A huge country like US has some many excellent manufacturing companies but the average is tragically poor.

                          My recommendation is that you use your expertise closer to home
                          One, I'm not sure T-vip is from the U.S., but assumptions are always valid here, huh?
                          Second, what? Not sure what part of the U.S. you've viewed, or how you've come up with these conclusions. U.S. cars maybe? First off, most things considered "US products" are not made in the U.S. (Fords, Chevy's,etc- very few models U.S. manufactured. What is made in U.S.: some BMW, Honda, Mercedes). Then look at the production facilities at Boeing, Lockheed, UTC, etc. Then I suggest you compare them to the video, and eat humble pie.

                          Addition- most low end products from U.S. corporations are produced overseas due to wage/union issues. Higher end tech and luxury products are US made, take Apple: iPhone was designed in Cupertino- built in China, the new Mac Pro- built in U.S.
                          Last edited by FBW; 16th May 2016, 02:05.

                          Comment

                          • Halo
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 212

                            @production facilities,

                            My whole point is actually that you build the first aircraft in a very different way to compared to setting up a production line for a BOEING 787, and yes I presume that they have problems too, sure there are lots of things even in the production line that has to be changed, actually that's what test aircraft are for.

                            General and what appears to be moderately qualified and extraordinary negative statements on manufacturing might add a bit to the fun but not to the know how of this thread.

                            Previous statements on position of rivets for example, you can be pretty sure that there are exact tolerances for what can be accepted. I would look forward to something like rivet positioning, welding type or influence of resonance, that would be a contribution.
                            Last edited by Halo; 16th May 2016, 04:49.

                            Comment

                            • topspeed
                              Get on uppah !
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 2659

                              Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                              For your concerns, I drove a Saab for nearly 300k km admiring the quality of its manufacturing and clever engineering every single day I owned it, a car built in Gotheborg, a city where stand also one of my former employer with who I shared a great deal of satisfaction over our modest achievement in the auto industry (safety). I don't care that the bird is Swedish, French or built by chimps or in the US. I have presently no stake at it that will stain the honesty of my comments. I share simply my concerns only given what I see.
                              Now, if it happens that intellectual honesty is something that repulse you, you might not want to share with me over a public forum. Thanks in advance.

                              And by the way, I know my Swedes.

                              I actually drive a Volvo with proven Ford engine technology. I bought the car as it was the only car I was able to fit inside comfortably. I had french car before that and new German car was also limited in cockpit size.
                              If it looks good, it will fly good !
                              -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                              http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

                              • topspeed
                                Get on uppah !
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 2659

                                Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                It's always the same sequence that is pictured. This time we have to see the engine installation and roll out as a supplementary bonus (notice the petal airbrake that are still on).
                                Given that the fuselage was left idle on the production line for quite a considerable laps of time (in the film it's then interrupted by a two day sequence with a lot more of activity around the bird and none in the background), we have the right to be concerned with conformity or problem with the quality of the design.

                                And I am still wondering how they plan to remove the wing on the field when they need to move a damaged airframe around. The Grip supposed ability to operate from dispersed airfield doesn't match with this.
                                Is it possible that when they make the plane like that it becomes the only aircraft that in fact can be operated from any one mile long country road which is approximately straight.
                                If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6109

                                  Originally posted by Halo View Post
                                  @production facilities,

                                  My whole point is actually that you build the first aircraft in a very different way to compared to setting up a production line for a BOEING 787, and yes I presume that they have problems too, sure there are lots of things even in the production line that has to be changed, actually that's what test aircraft are for.

                                  General and what appears to be moderately qualified and extraordinary negative statements on manufacturing might add a bit to the fun but not to the know how of this thread.

                                  Previous statements on position of rivets for example, you can be pretty sure that there are exact tolerances for what can be accepted. I would look forward to something like rivet positioning, welding type or influence of resonance, that would be a contribution.
                                  For rest of your diatribe, I have nothing that should be shared with someone attempting to stain someone's reputation for the sake to hide some deficiencies.it's despicable on the principle.
                                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th May 2016, 13:56.

                                  Comment

                                  • Halo
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Apr 2009
                                    • 212

                                    great with your comments however it would be even more so if you could avoid to mix them with your agenda.

                                    Comment

                                    • TomcatViP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 6109

                                      Originally posted by Halo View Post
                                      great with your comments however it would be even more so if you could avoid to mix them with your agenda.
                                      My agenda?! Alright..
                                      My dear Halo, make me a favor, get a girlfriend, some fresh air a drink or whatever but forget about me. You ain't skin that cat.

                                      And since we have a surge of similar comments (who are legally border line, should I remind), Keypub forum is a free access web space dedicated to information and discussions around aviation. Like it or not, freedom of speech is protected by the very same men & women in uniforms flying the aircrafts that we are fans here.

                                      Now if you have something specifically against me, you'd be well advise to switch on a private discussion.
                                      Last edited by TomcatViP; 16th May 2016, 13:58.

                                      Comment

                                      • swerve
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2005
                                        • 13610

                                        Originally posted by topspeed View Post
                                        I actually drive a Volvo with proven Ford engine technology. I bought the car as it was the only car I was able to fit inside comfortably. I had french car before that and new German car was also limited in cockpit size.
                                        I used to know someone who was 2.08 metres tall. He drove a Volvo. Said it was because he fitted in it.
                                        Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                        Justinian

                                        Comment

                                        • topspeed
                                          Get on uppah !
                                          • Jan 2009
                                          • 2659

                                          Originally posted by swerve View Post
                                          I used to know someone who was 2.08 metres tall. He drove a Volvo. Said it was because he fitted in it.
                                          Mine was before the ownership went to chinese, but the Geely has turned interesting with revamping the SAINT.
                                          Attached Files
                                          If it looks good, it will fly good !
                                          -Bill Lear & Marcel Dassault


                                          http://max3fan.blogspot.com/

                                          Comment

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