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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • anderswestby
    Rank 2 Registered User
    • Feb 2016
    • 7

    Why is it so, ppl on forums seems to underestamte the actually weapons delivered by the weaponplatform Its like talking tanks without a cannon.

    Comment

    • MSphere
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 8983

      Originally posted by Ozair View Post
      To add to that, there still remains the issue that the VLO airframe will be detected at a shorter range than a non VLO airframe. So irrespective of the radar system used the F-22/F-35 will be detected at shorter ranges than their equivalent 5th gen aircraft, let alone the 4th gen, merely for the fact they have a lower RCS.
      The question remains at what range.. If the detection range of the F-22 is within the NEZ of the its AMRAAM, then Meteor for Gripen does not make any difference.
      But if it isn't, then Gripen would be a better BVR performer than the Raptor.

      Comment

      • Loke
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jun 2008
        • 3302

        Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
        Don't take me wrong, there is certainly a balance of op condition where owning Meteor will bring a distinct advantage, but those occurrence are getting scarce when J20 or PakFa are the new norm.
        We are talking about the situation today, not in 10 or 20 years... Why do you change the topic to a "future scenario"? Or do you really believe that J-20 and PAK FA are operational today?

        Comment

        • Spitfire9
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jul 2008
          • 2834

          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
          The question remains at what range.. If the detection range of the F-22 is within the NEZ of the its AMRAAM, then Meteor for Gripen does not make any difference.
          But if it isn't, then Gripen would be a better BVR performer than the Raptor.
          Off topic, but Typhoon + large AESA + Meteor is likely to outshine everything else in BVR, isn't it? I wonder how the range of the Gripen E AESA will compare.
          Sum ergo cogito

          Comment

          • moon_light
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • May 2012
            • 1033

            Originally posted by obligatory View Post
            GaN AESA & spanky new processing power all but nullify the moderate level of observable F-22 & 35 is built to,
            GaN transmitter and better processing power will impove jamming capabilities too, and one of the main advantage of stealth platform is that they can reduce burn through range to extremely small value compared to non stealth platform so that would nullify the advance in radar technology

            Comment

            • Levsha
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2006
              • 2853

              Originally posted by Loke View Post
              Huskit ranks the "top BVR fighters of 2016"; surprise entry at 2nd.

              https://hushkit.net/2016/04/24/the-t...hters-of-2016/
              Where is the F-35 - hasn't it already entered IOC?

              Comment

              • mig-31bm
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2013
                • 2140

                Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                Off topic, but Typhoon + large AESA + Meteor is likely to outshine everything else in BVR, isn't it? I wonder how the range of the Gripen E AESA will compare.
                Typhoon have decent radar but it unlikely that it would be powerful enough again VLO aircraft, stealth fighter just have too big of an advantage especially with ECM

                Comment

                • MSphere
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 8983

                  Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                  Off topic, but Typhoon + large AESA + Meteor is likely to outshine everything else in BVR, isn't it? I wonder how the range of the Gripen E AESA will compare.
                  Certainly a possibility.. Depending on the distance it can detect/shoot at the F-22, Typhoon with Meteor could become the best BVR performer worldwide..

                  Comment

                  • obligatory
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 7043

                    especially since EF radar sits on a swivel too, the question is WHEN is the radar upgrade coming,
                    otoh the fact they are dragging their feet means it will no doubt be the real thing: GaN

                    Comment

                    • TomcatViP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 6109

                      Originally posted by Loke View Post
                      We are talking about the situation today, not in 10 or 20 years... Why do you change the topic to a "future scenario"? Or do you really believe that J-20 and PAK FA are operational today?
                      Quick, quick, a Gripen on top of my Pizza, please.

                      Sound weird, no? Not quite the same procurement process, would you think so?

                      Comment

                      • JSR
                        JSR
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 4977

                        Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                        Where is the F-35 - hasn't it already entered IOC?
                        You took the list serious.

                        Comment

                        • Ozair
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Oct 2015
                          • 822

                          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                          The question remains at what range..
                          I think we can both agree that we wont know the exact details on this so the rest is conjecture.

                          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                          If the detection range of the F-22 is within the NEZ of the its AMRAAM, then Meteor for Gripen does not make any difference.
                          But if it isn't, then Gripen would be a better BVR performer than the Raptor.
                          What we know is that US VLO airframes perform best against air based X band radar systems, exactly those flying in fighter jets today. Given VLO capability, I have doubts that a Gripen AESA would see the F-22 or F-35 at tactically significantly greater ranges. AESA radars bring higher average power and better gain but the radar equation remains the same, the target RCS being one of the primary factors in determining distance. Hence a low RCS, and with F-22 and F-35 we are talking a value of 0.001 or less, makes detection and tracking at significantly beyond BVR ranges unlikely, and that is before we add jamming to the mix.

                          The issue remains that non VLO airframes would be at significantly greater threat than a VLO airframe.

                          Finally, if all we grade BVR performance on is the range of the weapon and the radar range of the aircraft we are oversimplifying the problem.

                          Comment

                          • obligatory
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 7043

                            what makes meteor a different beast is that it will perform at peak performance at intercept,
                            unlike the rest of the bunch lest flight time was below 8 sec, or 4 sec for VWR

                            Comment

                            • Loke
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 3302

                              A NATO-observed trial took place over Pratica di Mare air base, near Rome, during which Finmeccanica’s Mode 5 reverse-IFF system was integrated on board Tranche 1 aircraft. It simulated interrogating Italian army vehicles for friendly signal emissions which, once verified, ensured the fighter held off from firing at allied forces.

                              IFF systems are typically used to verify the threat from other aircraft by sending out an interrogation signal and requesting the pilot respond. The reversed system interrogates ground forces, and is named as such because it uses the transponder usually employed to reply to interrogations to scan the ground for threats.
                              In February, it was also announced that Saab Gripen NGs destined for Sweden and Brazil will benefit from the IFF system, under a 96-unit order to be delivered over a five-year period from 2017.
                              https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-capab-424618/

                              which probably explains this:

                              System testing of the antenna has taken place at a dedicated facility at Arborgu in Sweden, and the IFF has also gone through initial integration and qualification testing, says Bruce Wigg, campaign manager, Finmeccanica Airborne and Space Systems division.

                              The transponder being provided for Gripen - the Mode 5 M428 - is also being offered to the UK Ministry of Defence for a NATO requirement for a new standard of IFF, although Wigg could not say which platforms this includes.
                              https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...pen-ng-421914/

                              Comment

                              • Loke
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jun 2008
                                • 3302

                                Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                Quick, quick, a Gripen on top of my Pizza, please.
                                Sound weird, no? Not quite the same procurement process, would you think so?
                                Who talked about procurement? Gripen C/D is operational in Sweden (and Thailand, Hungary, South Africa, Czheckia) today; Gripen C/D with Meteor is operational (in Sweden) today.

                                Or are you referring to procurement of PAK FA and J-20? Yes, that will indeed take a long time, however first they need to finalize development.

                                Comment

                                • Loke
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jun 2008
                                  • 3302

                                  On the topic of Gripen aircraft computer system; from a Saab slide:
                                  IMA is a shared set of flexible, reusable, and interoperable
                                  hardware and software resources that, when integrated, form
                                  a platform that provides services, designed and verified to a
                                  defined set of safety and performance requirements, to host
                                  applications performing aircraft functions.

                                  Apart from Gripen, there are IMA
                                  systems also in Lockheed Martin F-22
                                  and F-35, Dassault Aviation Rafale,
                                  and Airbus A350 and A380.

                                  Comment

                                  • Loke
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jun 2008
                                    • 3302

                                    On May 18 we're bringing the first of the next generation Gripen to stage at our aeronautical HQ in Linkping, Sweden. It's a key milestone in the evolution of the smart fighter. It will be covered live on gripen.com but if you prefer to experience it on site, heres what you have to do. Tag your favourite Gripen images with #Gripenevolution on Instagram, no later than 2 May and keep your fingers crossed that your image will take you to the exclusive Gripen event in Linkping 18 May.

                                    How it works

                                    When you have tagged your photo/s with #Gripenevolution on Instagram your photo has entered the competition. At the closing date, 2/5/2016 the winner will be drawn out of the entries and get an exclusive visit to the Gripen event at Linkping 18 May.
                                    Read more: http://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-s...ution-contest/

                                    A pity I am not on "instagram".

                                    Comment

                                    • anderswestby
                                      Rank 2 Registered User
                                      • Feb 2016
                                      • 7

                                      Originally posted by Loke View Post
                                      Read more: http://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-s...ution-contest/

                                      A pity I am not on "instagram".
                                      It take you about 2 minutes to set up an account. if anyone dersvers to win its you

                                      Comment

                                      • anderswestby
                                        Rank 2 Registered User
                                        • Feb 2016
                                        • 7

                                        What do you guys think about a possible Gripen NG sale to Finland?
                                        http://sputniknews.com/europe/201604...a-finland.html

                                        Comment

                                        • alexz
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2010
                                          • 325

                                          Originally posted by anderswestby View Post
                                          What do you guys think about a possible Gripen NG sale to Finland?
                                          http://sputniknews.com/europe/201604...a-finland.html
                                          Maybe this is better in the finnish airforce thread? Btw is the new fighter budget really usd 11 billion? Isn't that higher than norways allocation for their f-35 purchase?

                                          Comment

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