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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • swerve
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jun 2005
    • 13610

    You wrote VTOL. I've consistently criticised that - & only that - while explicitly stating that it's effective as a STOVL aircraft, not VTOL. You've replied to that as if you disagree. Do you not read what you reply to? Or not understand it?
    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
    Justinian

    Comment

    • TomcatViP
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2011
      • 6107

      I wrote :
      with a vstol stealth aircraft
      What can led anyone into confusion (this I wrote latter also).

      If we look at Switzerland geography, there are no needs to have a range of 590nm. This is 3.5 time the span of the entire country!

      With 13000/2.5 lb of fuel (2.5 and not 3.5 to take in effect the invariable T.O + Climb + Land expense of fuel), an armed F35lb can cover 590/3.5=166nm mission, hence cover a 300 km country.

      13000/2.5=5200lb, which by itself, is nearly reaching the bring back capability of the aircraft**.

      It's arithmetic*, not me.


      LAst but not least, it would be interesting to know how much at reduce fuel does Switzerland operates its F18 if any.

      *hairy, yes but representative somewhat.
      ** In A2A, everybody will agree
      Last edited by TomcatViP; 26th February 2016, 23:16.

      Comment

      • MSphere
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 8983

        Originally posted by Spyhawk View Post
        Yep, Switzerland paid for it, as well as the 9G rated reinforced airframe. The bill might have been shared with Finland - I don't know if Finnish Hornets also have the improved engines.
        They do.. F404-GE-402 EPE

        Comment

        • swerve
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2005
          • 13610

          Damn!

          My apologies. I misread vstol as vtol. My brain must have picked out the initial v & filled in the rest (how we often read things we're familiar with). Doh! Sorry about all that. I was getting wound up because - well you know, because what you were saying was wrong, if you'd really written what I read.

          I should have gone back & checked it earlier.
          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
          Justinian

          Comment

          • Loke
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jun 2008
            • 3302

            On behalf of Swedish defence contractor Saab AB, Rheinmetall will be equipping a total of 88 Gripen NG (‘Next Generation’) fighter aircraft with the BK27 automatic cannon with a newly developed linkless ammunition feeding system. The order is worth a mid eight-figure euro amount, said Rheinmetall.
            The linked ammunition-feeding version of the gas-operated revolver cannon serves as the standard weapon in the multi-role Tornado, while the Eurofighter features the linkless version.
            http://www.airrecognition.com/index....27-cannon.html

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            • Loke
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2008
              • 3302

              USD250m, four year follow on contract ensures comprehensive and cost effective support

              GKN Aerospace has entered into a four year Performance Based Logistics (PBL) contract with FMV (Swedish Defence Material Administration) for the provision of comprehensive support for the GKN Aerospace RM12 engine, which powers the JAS 39 Gripen C/D fighter. This contract follows on from an initial five year RM12 PBL agreement and is expected to be worth approximately USD250M.

              Throughout the period of the new agreement GKN Aerospace will continue its support for day to day operations for JAS 39 Gripen C/D users. The company will ensure engine availability for every Swedish Air Force mission as well as for Gripen C/D export customers: the Czech Republic, Hungary and Thailand. This will include the provision of technical product support as well as comprehensive maintenance, repair and overhaul including repair development and spare parts supply.
              http://www.gkn.com/media/News/Pages/...12-engine.aspx

              Comment

              • Loke
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jun 2008
                • 3302

                Gripen C with 2XIRIS-T, 2XMeteor, 8XGBU-39 SDB, Litening G3, gun Bk27:

                https://twitter.com/GripenNews/statu...732480/photo/1

                Not too shabby for such a tiny bird.

                Comment

                • Loke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 3302

                  Bulgaria gearing up for fighter acquisition?

                  Nenchev added that the budgetary framework foresees expenditures on the aircraft amounting to $44.4mn and three producers have been contacted.

                  http://www.airrecognition.com/index....n-program.html

                  Three producers? At that budget I would guess at Saab, LM (second-hand F-16), and ... ?

                  Comment

                  • Spitfire9
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 2832

                    From the linked article: 'The defence minister said that $44.4mn are foreseen for the first installment for the multi-purpose aircraft...'
                    Sum ergo cogito

                    Comment

                    • Loke
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 3302

                      Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
                      From the linked article: 'The defence minister said that $44.4mn are foreseen for the first installment for the multi-purpose aircraft...'
                      Unless the first installment is a fraction of an aircraft, that small budget would severely limit what types of fighters they can get at such a low budget.

                      What is the unit cost of SH, Rafale, Typhoon? Or a new F-16 block 52+ for that matter...

                      Comment

                      • TooCool_12f
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 3321

                        44,4 million dollars?

                        even for a few second hand worn out f-16s it will be tough..

                        it maybe the "first installment", but pretty much anything new will cost a lot more

                        Comment

                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          2nd hand F-16s are quite cheap.. Eighteen F-16AM/BMs were sold to Chile for $15 million a pop.

                          Comment

                          • TooCool_12f
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 3321

                            that would mean 1 old f-16, a few spares and weapons, more or less

                            Comment

                            • alexz
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 325

                              Chile could buy used f-16s for chips as they are already a current user of the f-16, with all the supporting infrastructures already in place. For a new user such as Bulgaria, look at how much Romania is spending to get ita first dozen f-16s.

                              Btw is there any good surplus f-5e's still around? Any info of the buyers of the saudi f-5e sales last year?

                              Comment

                              • Spitfire9
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 2832

                                Originally posted by alexz View Post
                                Chile could buy used f-16s for chips as they are already a current user of the f-16, with all the supporting infrastructures already in place. For a new user such as Bulgaria, look at how much Romania is spending to get ita first dozen f-16s.
                                How much are Romania spending?
                                Sum ergo cogito

                                Comment

                                • MSphere
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Feb 2010
                                  • 8983

                                  For the aircraft alone, not much more.. None ex-Portuguese F-16AM/BM and three ex-USAF birds for $253 mil. But the weapons/equipment/support package costs another $457 mil.

                                  Weapons include 3x AN/ALQ-131 ECM, 30x AIM-120C, 60x AIM-9M, 48x LAU-129, 10x GBU-12 and 18x AGM-65H.
                                  Pretty much a symbolic force, IMHO.. But for air policing and defense it might do for a while..

                                  http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...5-mlu-aircraft

                                  Comment

                                  • TooCool_12f
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2009
                                    • 3321

                                    From wiki, Bulgaria sent an RFI for 8 multirole fighters to different manufacturers in 2011... only SAAB responded... that should probably give an indication about what aircraft we can expect to be sold overthere...

                                    Comment

                                    • alexz
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2010
                                      • 325

                                      Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                      For the aircraft alone, not much more.. None ex-Portuguese F-16AM/BM and three ex-USAF birds for $253 mil. But the weapons/equipment/support package costs another $457 mil.

                                      Weapons include 3x AN/ALQ-131 ECM, 30x AIM-120C, 60x AIM-9M, 48x LAU-129, 10x GBU-12 and 18x AGM-65H.
                                      Pretty much a symbolic force, IMHO.. But for air policing and defense it might do for a while..

                                      http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...5-mlu-aircraft
                                      Btw just few days ago romainan government stated that they are looking to add another 12 f-16s to the current 12 bought from Portugal.

                                      Anyway, Imo the only way the gripen to land in Bulgaria is under a lease term, or if it is available in the future, 2nd hand gripen c. How soon would it be for a used gripen c to be available?

                                      Comment

                                      • Loke
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Jun 2008
                                        • 3302

                                        Snapshots from Gripen NG assembly:

                                        http://www.gripenblogs.com/Lists/Pos...t.aspx?ID=1386

                                        Comment

                                        • Loke
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Jun 2008
                                          • 3302

                                          More than 60 per cent of the development of the two-seat Gripen NG will take place in Brazil, as will the production. A full 80 per cent of flight testing will take place in Brazil.
                                          The Brazilian aviation manufacturer Embraer is one of six partner companies that have been selected. The industrial cooperation will start with 150 Brazilians coming to Saab’s facility in Linkping, Sweden, for education and what is known as ‘on-the-job training’, where they will work in parallel on different projects. This phase began in autumn 2015 and will continue for a number of years, after which personnel move gradually back to Brazil with their newly acquired knowledge. During this phase Saab employees will accompany them to build up operations in Brazil.
                                          Read more: http://saab.com/about-saab/sites/201...stry-takes-of/

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