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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • MSphere
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 8983

    Originally posted by JSR View Post
    http://tass.ru/en/defense/857531
    Unlike the Su-30MKI fighter jet, the avionics suite mounted on the Su-30SME aircraft’s version lacks French-made components, the source said.
    Russian-made components for the Su-30SME fighter jet’s avionics suite have allowed enhancing the aircraft’s capabilities.
    That wasn't the main point, however. They simply needed to make a domestic version in order to overcome the issues with embargoed items like VEH-3022 HUD or CMFD55/66 displays by Thales.

    Comment

    • Loke
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jun 2008
      • 3302

      Saab will roll out the first Gripen E version at Linkoping, Sweden on May 18, said Richard Smith, the companys head of marketing and sales for the combat aircraft. In a bullish briefing at the Singapore Airshow last week, Smith said that thanks to the 60 new-build E/F jets for Sweden, plus the Brazilian Gripen order and other surveillance and submarine programs, the Swedish companys backlog was at an all-time high of $13.5 billion.
      Smith described the huge technical transfer program associated with the Brazilian acquisition of Gripen. This includes 50 key projects in four categories, and is an expanded version of the model used in South Africas Gripen deal. Last October, the first 48 of an eventual 350 Brazilian engineers arrived in Sweden to work on the project. Fifteen of the expected 36 Gripens to be acquired by Brazil will be built by Embraer at a Development Center to be established at Gaviao Peixato. The center will also help develop the two-seat Gripen F and integrate weapons.
      Meanwhile, development of the existing Gripen C/D version was continuing. The Swedish air force was introducing the MS20 upgrade that includes a new radar processor and receiver/exciter, a new IRST (infrared search and track), and new weapons. The Mk4 radar upgrade provides longer range to exploit the new MBDA Meteor BVRAAM (beyond visual range air-to-air missile), which Sweden will be the first to declare operational.
      http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...-date-gripen-e

      This is the first I hear about a new IRST in MS20? Also interesting to note that MS20 includes the mk4 radar upgrade:
      Disclosed by company officials on 27 April, the Mk4 modification involves the replacement of two line-replaceable units in the back section of the mechanically-scanned radar. This provides a new exciter/receiver module with digital waveform generation and a new radar processing unit, along with updated software.

      As a result of these updates, the PS-05/A Mk4 gains a claimed increase in detection range of at least 100%, and this is expected to rise to 150% for a high-altitude air-to-air engagement scenario by 2017, Saab says.
      https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...cement-411687/

      Comment

      • Agrippa
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2013
        • 49

        Originally posted by Loke View Post
        http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...-date-gripen-e

        This is the first I hear about a new IRST in MS20? Also interesting to note that MS20 includes the mk4 radar upgrade:

        https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...cement-411687/
        Those are factual errors. MS20 does not include IRST & PS-05 Mk. 4.

        Comment

        • Loke
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2008
          • 3302

          Originally posted by Agrippa View Post
          Those are factual errors. MS20 does not include IRST & PS-05 Mk. 4.
          Thanks, I did find in particular the IRST to sound rather strange. A more reliable source:

          New missile METEOR
          New ground targets weapons SDB (Small Diameter Bomb)
          New radar applications
          Improved self-protection
          GCA (Ground Collision Avoidance System)
          Protective equipment (CBRN) which allows flight in the contaminated area
          Miscellaneous availibility and robustness enhancing measures
          Expanded collaboration functions, including Link 16
          Digital CAS, therefore, cooperation with ground troops
          Extended functionality reconnaissance
          Support for navigation in the civil airspace
          Google translated from:

          http://www.fmv.se/sv/Nyheter-och-pre...JAS-39-Gripen/

          Comment

          • JakobS
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Aug 2015
            • 155

            Those are a real nice set of upgrades!

            I really hope our politicians come to their senses and keeps the C/D version flying for many more years, it would be such a disgrace if they were allowed to throw all of them away by 2025...

            Comment

            • swerve
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jun 2005
              • 13610

              Weeeellll . . . to keep C flying after buying 60 E would mean increasing the size of the air force.

              There could be a market for secondhand C/D, e.g. Thailand will need to replace its remaining F-5E/F & F-16A/B. The timescale is about right, & would fit in with Thailand's recent purchases. A mix of upgraded Gripen C/D & T-50 (& maybe FA-50) would probably provide Thailand with an adequate air combat force, & fits in perfectly with recent purchases.
              Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
              Justinian

              Comment

              • Ozair
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Oct 2015
                • 822

                Originally posted by swerve View Post
                Weeeellll . . . to keep C flying after buying 60 E would mean increasing the size of the air force.

                There could be a market for secondhand C/D, e.g. Thailand will need to replace its remaining F-5E/F & F-16A/B. The timescale is about right, & would fit in with Thailand's recent purchases. A mix of upgraded Gripen C/D & T-50 (& maybe FA-50) would probably provide Thailand with an adequate air combat force, & fits in perfectly with recent purchases.
                Agree, the RTAF is ready and waiting to introduce another 40-60 Gripen as the F-16s, F-5s and even the Alpha jets age off.

                Comment

                • Loke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 3302

                  Originally posted by Ozair View Post
                  Agree, the RTAF is ready and waiting to introduce another 40-60 Gripen as the F-16s, F-5s and even the Alpha jets age off.
                  Perhaps, but would they perhaps be more interested in Gripen E than C?

                  Comment

                  • Loke
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jun 2008
                    • 3302

                    Swizterland is restarting its quest for a new fighter jet for its air force after a botched attempt two years ago to purchase 22 Saab Gripens. New aircraft are still needed to replace ageing F-5 Tigers, defense minister Guy Parmelin told Swiss government on Wednesday 24 February.

                    This year the Swiss start setting up requirements for the new fighter plus a set of plans for the selection process and eventual purchase. The selection is set to last until 2020, with a formal decision and order no later than 2022. Deliveries should start by 2025, according to Parmelin.
                    http://airheadsfly.com/2016/02/24/sw...w-fighter-jet/

                    Will they go for Gripen E again, or will the F-35 win? Or perhaps Rafale will drop in price due to increased production between now and 2020?

                    Comment

                    • The_5aab_God
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 161

                      Originally posted by Loke View Post
                      http://airheadsfly.com/2016/02/24/sw...w-fighter-jet/

                      Will they go for Gripen E again, or will the F-35 win? Or perhaps Rafale will drop in price due to increased production between now and 2020?
                      F-35 is a non starter i would think?

                      Comment

                      • Loke
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 3302

                        Originally posted by The_5aab_God View Post
                        F-35 is a non starter i would think?
                        Why? It is projected to keep falling in price, and should be at a quite affordable level by 2020-2022. Or are you thinking about the noise level and the noise tests?

                        Comment

                        • Vnomad
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • May 2011
                          • 2859

                          Originally posted by Loke View Post
                          Swizterland is restarting its quest for a new fighter jet for its air force after a botched attempt two years ago to purchase 22 Saab Gripens. New aircraft are still needed to replace ageing F-5 Tigers, defense minister Guy Parmelin told Swiss government on Wednesday 24 February.
                          What's the point really? Just ask Saab for an updated quote and announce a new referendum. Unless they replace the proposal with the FA-50 or (upgraded) Gripen C/D, the result of the last referendum (which wasn't very long ago) still stands.

                          Despite its falling cost (and rising cost-effectiveness), the F-35 will still be a pricier alternative to the Gripen E. Its not making through a poll (especially given the F-35's PR issues). The Rafale even more so.

                          Comment

                          • TooCool_12f
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 3321

                            It all depends on what they ask for.

                            if they want to make a full selection process, the result may be interesting... and will inevitably end in a referendum.

                            Now, if once more, the policians decide to take an aircraft considered inadequate after the tests (by simply declaring it ok, as if tests never took place), the referendum will reject it. If they follow the recommendations if the evaluation team... it may come through

                            Comment

                            • Loke
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 3302

                              Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post
                              It all depends on what they ask for.

                              if they want to make a full selection process, the result may be interesting... and will inevitably end in a referendum.

                              Now, if once more, the policians decide to take an aircraft considered inadequate after the tests (by simply declaring it ok, as if tests never took place), the referendum will reject it. If they follow the recommendations if the evaluation team... it may come through
                              AFAIK not all reports were leaked, only those that painted Gripen in a bad light. The Swiss air force I believe agreed that given the financial constraints Gripen NG was the best choice at the time.

                              Comment

                              • Vnomad
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • May 2011
                                • 2859

                                Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post
                                Now, if once more, the policians decide to take an aircraft considered inadequate after the tests (by simply declaring it ok, as if tests never took place), the referendum will reject it. If they follow the recommendations if the evaluation team... it may come through
                                Oh come now, you're being silly! The Gripen E didn't lose the referendum because it wasn't advanced enough. It did so because the associated cost was considered steep, especially in a country where a substantial part of the electorate would like to disband the military altogether.

                                To believe that the Rafale could have cleared that referendum is an exercise in wishful thinking.

                                Comment

                                • Loke
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jun 2008
                                  • 3302

                                  Originally posted by Vnomad View Post
                                  Despite its falling cost (and rising cost-effectiveness), the F-35 will still be a pricier alternative to the Gripen E.
                                  Are you sure? I think I have read in the F-35 thread that the experts over there believe F-35 to become as affordable as Gripen. I may be wrong of course.

                                  Spud and FBW where are you?

                                  Comment

                                  • Spyhawk
                                    Rank 42 Registered User
                                    • Dec 2011
                                    • 175

                                    Originally posted by TooCool_12f View Post
                                    It all depends on what they ask for.

                                    if they want to make a full selection process, the result may be interesting... and will inevitably end in a referendum.

                                    Now, if once more, the policians decide to take an aircraft considered inadequate after the tests (by simply declaring it ok, as if tests never took place), the referendum will reject it. If they follow the recommendations if the evaluation team... it may come through
                                    This is getting ridiculous. You're still burring your head in the sand about credibility factors and showing blatant ignorance about Swiss politics.

                                    Comment

                                    • TooCool_12f
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Dec 2009
                                      • 3321

                                      Originally posted by Vnomad View Post
                                      Oh come now, you're being silly! The Gripen E didn't lose the referendum because it wasn't advanced enough. It did so because the associated cost was considered steep, especially in a country where a substantial part of the electorate would like to disband the military altogether.

                                      To believe that the Rafale could have cleared that referendum is an exercise in wishful thinking.
                                      actually, there are those who consider the fighter replacement unnecessary, who have and will vote against, but they aren't numerous enough to win alone. There were also those who considered that the aircraft chosen was the one that was the worse of the contenders and they made the numbers needed to cancel the buy

                                      Comment

                                      • TooCool_12f
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Dec 2009
                                        • 3321

                                        Originally posted by Loke View Post
                                        AFAIK not all reports were leaked, only those that painted Gripen in a bad light. The Swiss air force I believe agreed that given the financial constraints Gripen NG was the best choice at the time.
                                        The swiss air force or a high ranking officer or two, repeating nicely what their boss told them to say?

                                        if it failed essential tests, it failed. the leaks covered all tested areas... and the gripen could compete only on costs . In all performance tests it came dead last (even behind the hornets the contenders were pitted against) as far as I can remember

                                        Comment

                                        • TooCool_12f
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Dec 2009
                                          • 3321

                                          Originally posted by Spyhawk View Post
                                          This is getting ridiculous. You're still burring your head in the sand about credibility factors and showing blatant ignorance about Swiss politics.
                                          Strangely, that us the PoV of a few swiss guys I happen to see discussing on other boards... but YOU know better

                                          Comment

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