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SAAB Gripen and Gripen NG thread #4

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  • vleugelmoer
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Oct 2013
    • 87

    Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
    So did the laws of physics change since the Mica was too small to have the same range than an AMRAAM-C?
    That's what the nice salesman said, yes.
    Last edited by vleugelmoer; 14th February 2016, 14:29.

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    • Sintra
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Aug 2007
      • 3851

      Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
      It would be amazing if people around here took the time to do the most basic research before posting...

      Read the link I already posted twice in this thread. This is a missile that would both out-range an AMRAAM and out maneuver an Aim-9x, with the ability to achieve 360 degree coverage.

      Between missiles like this and the coming laser weapons the days of dogfighting (and 4th generation fighters...) are over.
      The CUDA is a Lockheed Martin paper exercise, that is NOT GOING TO END IN PRODUCTION. And could you give any evidence of anyone from LM claiming that it "would both out-range an AMRAAM and out maneuver an Aim-9x"?
      sigpic

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      • Sintra
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Aug 2007
        • 3851

        Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
        So did the laws of physics change since the Mica was too small to have the same range than an AMRAAM-C?
        Lockheed Martin laws?
        sigpic

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        • hopsalot
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2012
          • 3166

          Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
          So did the laws of physics change since the Mica was too small to have the same range than an AMRAAM-C?
          No, the laws of physics did not change. Just as they didn't change when we went from this:

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          To this:

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          At an equivalent technology level a larger missile optimized for BVR engagements is going to offer better BVR performance than a significantly smaller missile design compromised to try to offer acceptable WVR and BVR performance from the same missile. This really isn't a complicated concept to grasp.
          Last edited by hopsalot; 14th February 2016, 15:03.

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          • hopsalot
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2012
            • 3166

            Originally posted by Sintra View Post
            The CUDA is a Lockheed Martin paper exercise, that is NOT GOING TO END IN PRODUCTION. And could you give any evidence of anyone from LM claiming that it "would both out-range an AMRAAM and out maneuver an Aim-9x"?
            Try reading here...

            http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/...le-update.html

            Comment

            • garryA
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2015
              • 1120

              Originally posted by obligatory View Post
              yes, an aim-9 equivalent, but then F-35 lost the chance of first shot,
              It can still carry Aim-120D or Meteor , i dont think you have to exclude one weapon to carry the others
              after block 5 , F-35 can carry 6 AIM-120 , so can probably sacrifile 1 of them to have space for 2 CUDA




              Originally posted by obligatory View Post
              For UK its pretty straight forward: external meteor,
              Iam sure they arenot that stupid
              http://www.mbda-systems.com/air-dominance/meteor/
              http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...date-f35-0599/
              https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...r-f-35-347416/

              Comment

              • obligatory
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2008
                • 7043

                1]
                here's what google has to say about "notional"

                notional/ˈnōSH(ə)n(ə)l/
                adjective

                existing only in theory or as a suggestion or idea.

                2] here's what your own link says about meteor
                " It is also compatible with other advanced fighter aircraft and will be integrated to the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter."

                Comment

                • Loke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 3302

                  Finnish blogger Corporal Frisk has been visiting Saab and looked at Gripen E development:

                  he JAS 39E Gripen is one of the foremost candidates for replacing the F/A-18C Hornet in the Finnish Air Force under the HX-program. As such, I was naturally interested when I was approached by Saab about joining in on a visit by Finnish media to the Gripen production line in Linkping.
                  The 39E is in many ways a brand new fighter, despite sharing an outward similarity to the older versions. The main landing gear have been moved outwards, making room for a considerably more internal fuel and extra weapon stations in a broader lower fuselage. The upper part of the fuselage has a smoother transition between the fuselage and the wing root, which is now structurally a part of the main fuselage element, unlike earlier versions where the whole wing was bolted onto the fuselage.
                  https://corporalfrisk.wordpress.com/...est-the-plane/
                  Last edited by Loke; 14th February 2016, 20:22.

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                  • Rii
                    Rii
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2010
                    • 3449

                    Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                    This is a missile that would both out-range an AMRAAM and out maneuver an Aim-9x, with the ability to achieve 360 degree coverage.
                    Remember folks, this is the same poster who thinks that putative T-50 performance specifications are questionable because they register significant improvements across multiple domains simultaneously.

                    Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                    Lockheed Martin laws?
                    'Murica physics.
                    Last edited by Rii; 14th February 2016, 20:33.

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                    • hopsalot
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2012
                      • 3166

                      Originally posted by Rii View Post
                      Remember folks, this is the same poster who thinks that putative T-50 performance specifications are questionable because they register significant improvements across multiple domains simultaneously.



                      'Murica physics.

                      Have you ever made a substantive post?

                      Comment

                      • Loke
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 3302

                        Sweden and France reparlent Switzerland to their fighters. On his first trip abroad, Guy Parmelin told them to Munich the next analysis. And it evokes the terrorist threat against foreign interests, the main in Switzerland, he said.

                        The head of the Federal Department of Defence (VBS) on Friday met his Swedish counterparts including Peter Hultqvist and French Jean-Yves Le Drian, whose country produces the Rafale. They asked him where was thinking after the refusal of 22 Gripen vote in May 2014.

                        "We informed them of the procedure that will soon get under way," said Saturday at ats and Swiss television SRF Mr. Parmelin on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference. Switzerland must decide whether it wants only aircraft for aerial police or for tasks such as defense policy against aircraft (DCA).

                        Google translated from: http://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/toute-l-...V7B1_o.twitter

                        Interesting, so perhaps they are thinking of changing the requirements? Perhaps that could affect the outcome?

                        Comment

                        • Spyhawk
                          Rank 42 Registered User
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 175

                          Originally posted by Loke View Post
                          Interesting, so perhaps they are thinking of changing the requirements? Perhaps that could affect the outcome?
                          If by "outcome" you mean the "aircraft type", this is most probably not the case. Maybe numbers and less dedicated equipment.

                          Comment

                          • MSphere
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 8983

                            Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                            The, point, which once again seems to be eluding you... is that the Pentagon has made it clear that this is a class of weapon it wants to add to its arsenal. This shows both that the Pentagon's planners see a need for increased missile loadouts, and that the F-35 will ultimately end up capable of carrying 12 BVR missiles.
                            Once again.. I have claimed that #1 the missiles were non-existent as we speak and #2 that there was not even a scheduled development project for them yet.
                            #1 check, #2 check.. I don't know WTF are you talking about here.
                            Last edited by MSphere; 14th February 2016, 23:24.

                            Comment

                            • hopsalot
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2012
                              • 3166

                              Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                              Once again.. I have claimed that #1 the missiles were non-existent as we speak and #2 that there was not even a scheduled development project for them yet.
                              #1 check, #2 check.. I don't know WTF are you talking about here.
                              What you don't see to grasp is how new capabilities are developed.

                              The Pentagon is spending money right now to mature the necessary technologies. Yes, this is a step that precedes a formal R&D program, but missiles similar to CUDA are very much under development.

                              (Similar to the variable bypass fighter engine... no formal program yet, but it has already been receiving funding for years and will fly in just a few more...)

                              Comment

                              • MSphere
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 8983

                                Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                                What you don't see to grasp is how new capabilities are developed.
                                Of course I don't... I need someone named hopsalot to tell me..

                                Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                                The Pentagon is spending money right now to mature the necessary technologies. Yes, this is a step that precedes a formal R&D program, but missiles similar to CUDA are very much under development.
                                in other words... vaporware, as we speak..

                                Comment

                                • TomcatViP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 6122

                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  Of course I don't... I need someone named hopsalot to tell me..

                                  in other words... vaporware, as we speak..
                                  At least those prog are funded...

                                  Also, it doesn't make senses to have a Meteor embarked in your stealth fighter. When was the last time you saw a Ninja with tap dancing shoes*?

                                  *outside of Internet
                                  Last edited by TomcatViP; 15th February 2016, 00:08.

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                    At least those prog are funded...
                                    $14 mil, I would not declare it as "funded".. But if you insist..

                                    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                    Also, it doesn't make senses to have a Meteor embarked in your stealth fighter. When was the last time you saw a Ninja with tap dancing shoes*?
                                    And why doesn't it make sense?

                                    Comment

                                    • TomcatViP
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 6122

                                      Because the laws of Aerial warfare dictates that you don't want to get attention. Sneak in, sneak out. Your Meteor kill sequence is juts like lighting a beacon in the dark (or wearing tap dancing shoes while doing some Ninja things). It doesn't match-up with Stealth tech where time is the main variable (and not strictly distance)

                                      Comment

                                      • MSphere
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Feb 2010
                                        • 8983

                                        Frankly, once I have started a Meteor firing sequence at your fighter, you have a much bigger problem than me becoming a beacon..

                                        Comment

                                        • TomcatViP
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Nov 2011
                                          • 6122

                                          This is not a duel. There are a gaggle of killing system around (SAM, wingmen, AAA, ECM, Cyber, Laser, MicroWave...). A missile launch will trigger all the attention you can get.

                                          Now, if you are NOT stealthy, a long Range missile such as the Meteor is the best you can get. But time of engagement and hence, speed of the missile (and yourself), is of primordial importance (you have to get out of the attention bubble as fast as you can - this imply also a missile that can reach its autonomous guidance point the quickest).

                                          The Met with a cruise Mach fairly conventional is sadly already obsolete (if we speak in term of what is today on the drawing boards).
                                          Last edited by TomcatViP; 15th February 2016, 01:04.

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