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  • hopsalot
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2012
    • 3166

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    Whoooo, that was a rather fiery response..

    Can you point at factual BS, dubious sources and distorting conclusion in his article?

    Sounds like you or those professionals you mention should have very little problem to debunk his conclusions..
    No, it is an accurate description of what he writes. He is a garbage writer, the Gawker equivalent for defense issues.

    Comment

    • MSphere
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 8983

      In other words, he does not bow to the F-35.. I got it..
      that's whole metric tonnes of sour grapes I am seeing ...

      Comment

      • hopsalot
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2012
        • 3166

        Originally posted by MSphere View Post
        In other words, he does not bow to the F-35.. I got it..
        that's whole metric tonnes of sour grapes I am seeing ...
        No, he is pretty uniformly awful, but everything is about the F-35 for you...

        Comment

        • TR1
          TR1
          http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
          • Oct 2010
          • 9826

          David Axe is the "War is Boring" guy right?

          That site is like the bubble gum of defense reporting.
          sigpic

          Comment

          • Tango III
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Sep 2006
            • 25370

            Student pilot of Taiwanese Air Force involved in Arizona crash.

            F-16 Fighter Jet Crashes in Arizona; Pilot Feared Dead

            Comment

            • Tango III
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2006
              • 25370

              Kuwaiti air force commander confirms intention to buy Super Hornets

              Comment

              • Tango III
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2006
                • 25370

                "Modernized"

                Russian Nuclear Forces Receive 10 Tu-160, Tu-95 and Tu-22 Strategic Bombers

                Comment

                • MSphere
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 8983

                  Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                  No, he is pretty uniformly awful, but everything is about the F-35 for you...
                  I have spent two mins googling about the guy, he was the one who has brought up the story about the F-35 having been dismantled by an F-16D with the drop tanks.
                  Well, that explains pretty much everything..
                  Last edited by MSphere; 22nd January 2016, 12:26.

                  Comment

                  • Duggy
                    Flight SIM Pilot
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 1142

                    EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AFNS) -- An F-35 fighter jet from the 461st Flight Test Squadron launched an AIM-9X missile for the first time over the Pacific Sea Test Range Jan. 12.

                    The flight sciences aircraft, AF-1, of the Joint Strike Fighter Integrated Test Force, was piloted by David Nelson, the Lockheed Martin chief F-35 test pilot at Edwards Air Force Base.

                    The AIM-9X is an advanced infrared missile and the newest of the Sidewinder family of short-range air-to-air missiles carried on a wide range of fighter jets.

                    The missile was launched at 6,000 feet.

                    The shot paves the way for the F-35 to utilize the weapon's high off-boresight and targeting capabilities, increasing lethality in the visual arena.

                    Comment

                    • Levsha
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 2856

                      Not a great article. for example:

                      the Russian government is buying heavily upgraded versions of older planes an approach the Pentagon has dismissed as wasteful.
                      Why would the American military keep buying new examples of F-15s and F-16s when they can continue to upgrade the the same airframe tyopes already in service - which what they are doing. In fact, the US military are far more adept at keeping older airframe types in service longer than most other countries' military (B-52, A-10, F-15C etc.)

                      But a competing theory of aerial warfare argues that stealth is overrated and its better to buy greater numbers of cheaper, non-stealthy planes.
                      A competing theory advocated by who? Certainly not by any highly professional, well trained or experienced air force/air arm that I'm aware of?

                      Comment

                      • TomcatViP
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 6122

                        Lockheed Martin will not bid in Canada's FWSAR competition

                        “After following an extensive and thorough analysis of the RFP’s requirements, we decided to not submit a formal response to Canada’s FWSAR RFP. We remain fully committed to supporting the RCAF and its CC-130J fleet as it continues to perform the tactical transport role in Canada for decades to come.”
                        (Defense Daily):
                        Lockheed Martin’s lack of participation in the competition is said to have been in reaction to the saga revolving around Canada’s recent backing out of the F-35 program to launch a new procurement competition.
                        Source:
                        DefenseDaily.com
                        ottawacitizen.com/

                        Comment

                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                          A competing theory advocated by who? Certainly not by any highly professional, well trained or experienced air force/air arm that I'm aware of?
                          Swedish AF is not professional? Luftwaffe is not experienced? French AF is not well trained?

                          Comment

                          • Lt Anderson
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Oct 2013
                            • 278

                            Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                            French AF is not well trained?
                            I hope it's ironic.

                            Comment

                            • Levsha
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 2856

                              Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                              Swedish AF is not professional? Luftwaffe is not experienced? French AF is not well trained?
                              Never said they weren't. Have these countries already examined - and rejected - stealth technologies in their combat aircraft? Have they already decided that the future replacement of the Rafale, Gripen and Typhoon will forego any stealth technologies? You do realise that these countries are developing stealth LO aircraft for eventual service in the near future - Barracuda, Nuron UAVs?

                              Comment

                              • hopsalot
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2012
                                • 3166

                                Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                                Never said they weren't. Have these countries already examined - and rejected - stealth technologies in their combat aircraft? Have they already decided that the future replacement of the Rafale, Gripen and Typhoon will forego any stealth technologies? You do realise that these countries are developing stealth LO aircraft for eventual service in the near future - Barracuda, Nuron UAVs?
                                Exactly, fanboys are desperate to portray things as two different competing philosophies of air combat... stealth/5th generation fighters versus 4th generation fighters.

                                That is like saying that while -some- forces are embracing 4th generation fighters, others continue to prefer 3rd generation jets!

                                At this point essentially every clean slate design for a tactical military aircraft places a major emphasis on stealth. Stealth can't be retrofitted to older designs, so those older designs that remain in production lack it, but the day of 4th generation jets is ending.

                                Comment

                                • Levsha
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 2856

                                  Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                                  At this point essentially every clean slate design for a tactical military aircraft places a major emphasis on stealth. Stealth can't be retrofitted to older designs, so those older designs that remain in production lack it, but the day of 4th generation jets is ending.
                                  Exactly: Found this video on a potential successor to the French AF Rafale - maybe even RAF Typhoon?

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    Originally posted by Levsha View Post
                                    Never said they weren't. Have these countries already examined - and rejected - stealth technologies in their combat aircraft? Have they already decided that the future replacement of the Rafale, Gripen and Typhoon will forego any stealth technologies? You do realise that these countries are developing stealth LO aircraft for eventual service in the near future - Barracuda, Nuron UAVs?
                                    Yes, they have. All those forces have opted for a non-stealthy fleet for the next ~ two decades.. Of course with the promise to introduce LO/VLO once it becomes affordable.. You can't take stealth as face value without accouting for the cost involved. Whenever I am offered stealth for free I go for it, why wouldn't I? But whenever I am offered to buy and operate 30 F-35s for a price of 80 Gripens (lifetime cost), I say no, thanks... Easy as that..

                                    Comment

                                    • MSphere
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Feb 2010
                                      • 8983

                                      Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                                      Exactly, fanboys are desperate to portray things as two different competing philosophies of air combat... stealth/5th generation fighters versus 4th generation fighters.

                                      That is like saying that while -some- forces are embracing 4th generation fighters, others continue to prefer 3rd generation jets!

                                      At this point essentially every clean slate design for a tactical military aircraft places a major emphasis on stealth. Stealth can't be retrofitted to older designs, so those older designs that remain in production lack it, but the day of 4th generation jets is ending.
                                      The day of so called 5th gen is also ending before it has even started. The future of aerial combat is in large numbers of affordable and disposable UCAVs.. Planes like F-35, T-50 or J-20 are just intermediate steps from classic jets to these designs.. the rather focused emphasis on "stealth" features slapped on like airframe with lower RCS or discreet datalinks is not compensated by rather ridiculous achievements in suppression in IR or UV (even visible) spectrum.. An aircraft which is perfectly observable in any other spectrum than X-band is definitely not stealth, in my eyes, it's just an intermediate step enjoying its fifteen mins of glory until the countermeasures have caught up.

                                      I personally think that the decision of Euro nations to skip this (rather costly) gen was a sensible one..

                                      Comment

                                      • hopsalot
                                        Senior Member
                                        • Aug 2012
                                        • 3166

                                        Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                        Yes, they have. All those forces have opted for a non-stealthy fleet for the next ~ two decades.. Of course with the promise to introduce LO/VLO once it becomes affordable.. You can't take stealth as face value without accouting for the cost involved. Whenever I am offered stealth for free I go for it, why wouldn't I? But whenever I am offered to buy and operate 30 F-35s for a price of 80 Gripens (lifetime cost), I say no, thanks... Easy as that..
                                        Which is like saying that buyers of the F-4 in the early 70s "opted for" a 3rd generation jet over a 4th generation jet for the next two decades.

                                        Jets last a long time and nobody is going to just junk a newly purchased plane just because something better came out.

                                        The Eurocanards are a product of the 1980s and as such no stealth design was available. Their production is winding down as 5th generation production is building steam. This is totally normal and to be expected as newer designs supplant older ones. The last buyers of 4th generation jets will no doubt continue to operate them for years to come, but 5th generation designs are taking over.

                                        (..and if I were given the choice to operate 50 F-35As or 20 Gripens, lifetime costs, I would say no thanks... see how easy it is to make up numbers? )

                                        Comment

                                        • hopsalot
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Aug 2012
                                          • 3166

                                          Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                          The day of so called 5th gen is also ending before it has even started.
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                                          The future of aerial combat is in large numbers of affordable and disposable UCAVs..
                                          Says who? You? Why not post a picture of one of these new disposable UCAVs?


                                          I personally think that the decision of Euro nations to skip this (rather costly) gen was a sensible one..
                                          Those grapes were probably sour anyway...

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