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  • Tango III
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2006
    • 25365

    A-50 Aircraft Is Capable of Tracking 300 Targets Simultaneously

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    • Tango III
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Sep 2006
      • 25365

      Germany's Tornado reconnaissance jets 'can't fly at night': report

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      • Tango III
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2006
        • 25365

        China to Finalize Plans for $22 Billion Plane-Engine Giant (excerpt)

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        • MSphere
          Senior Member
          • Feb 2010
          • 8983

          Could be that their night vision goggles are lacking minus blue filters in their optics.. or that the wavelength of the filters does not match the wavelength of the cockpit lighting...

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          • djcross
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 5456

            NVGs weren't big in aviation until the 1980s. It isn't surprising that 1970s cockpit displays on a Tornado cannot be dimmed enough to be compatible with NVGs.

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            • TomcatViP
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Nov 2011
              • 6108

              The LCD upgrade is recent. We can only wonder how this has passed testing.
              Last edited by TomcatViP; 20th January 2016, 03:12.

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              • mrmalaya
                Generation 4.75+++
                • Jan 2010
                • 4664

                Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                Could be that their night vision goggles are lacking minus blue filters in their optics.. or that the wavelength of the filters does not match the wavelength of the cockpit lighting...
                Could it be that they havent planned and resourced and trained very well? If you think that your frontline aircraft are going to be used in anything other than exercises, then you equip them for that eventuality surely?

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                • swerve
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2005
                  • 13610

                  Originally posted by djcross View Post
                  NVGs weren't big in aviation until the 1980s. It isn't surprising that 1970s cockpit displays on a Tornado cannot be dimmed enough to be compatible with NVGs.
                  Really? It wasn't a problem for the RAF 25 years ago, so why should it be a problem for the Luftwaffe now?

                  And Luftwaffe (& other) Tornados don't have 1970s displays nowadays. All updated to LCD displays, like the Italians.
                  Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                  Justinian

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                  • Siddar
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Feb 2013
                    • 263

                    Originally posted by swerve View Post
                    Really? It wasn't a problem for the RAF 25 years ago, so why should it be a problem for the Luftwaffe now?

                    And Luftwaffe (& other) Tornados don't have 1970s displays nowadays. All updated to LCD displays, like the Italians.
                    So it seems putting those two sentences together that the new displays are actually worse in regards to NVG use than the old displays from the seventies.

                    So whoever did the upgrade simply ignored the need for there use in combination with NVG. Makes sense modern cockpits are full of flat panel displays. Those displays are much larger light sources than the older displays. If you ignored the need to use NVG when designing them then it is not surprising that the new displays render NVG unusable.

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                    • swerve
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 13610

                      If so, someone got the specifications for the upgrade spectacularly wrong, & nobody picked it up in testing.
                      Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                      Justinian

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                      • eagle
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 2369

                        NVG compatibility apparently was not an ASSTA 3 requirement so it should come as no surprise the jet can't do what it wasn't asked to do.
                        ASSTA 3.1 will add NVG compatibility afaik.
                        How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                        Yngwie Malmsteen

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                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 6108

                          Originally posted by eagle View Post
                          NVG compatibility apparently was not an ASSTA 3 requirement so it should come as no surprise the jet can't do what it wasn't asked to do.
                          ASSTA 3.1 will add NVG compatibility afaik.
                          So, they seriously send airplane doing some coalition work unable to operate among their coalition peers ?

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                          • mrmalaya
                            Generation 4.75+++
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 4664

                            Makes you wonder what the specifications for the Tornado replacement will be!

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                            • swerve
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jun 2005
                              • 13610

                              Originally posted by eagle View Post
                              NVG compatibility apparently was not an ASSTA 3 requirement so it should come as no surprise the jet can't do what it wasn't asked to do.
                              ASSTA 3.1 will add NVG compatibility afaik.
                              I've seen it reported elsewhere that it's not the screens, but LEDs which emit too much IR. The problem's been known about for a while & there's a requirement to replace them, but it's not been co-ordinated with installation of ASSTA 3, so it went ahead with the old LEDs - & there's a temporary fix with some kind of kit (filters to go over the LED lights?), but again, an administrative ****-up re. provision of it.
                              Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                              Justinian

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                              • MSphere
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 8983

                                Not necessarily displays, even one or two really bright diodes will force the ABC (Automatic Brightness Control) of your tubes to adjust the gain accordingly causing an ongoing loss of visual acuity for the scene outside the cockpit. NV compatible lighting is not only about reduced brightness, it's primarily about operating wavelength which is then largely filtered out by minus-blue filters.

                                Here is what happens if you don't adjust your lighting correctly.. The cockpit lighting modified to Class-B (emission up to 665 nm) as viewed through Class-A objective lens of AN/AVS-9 NVGs and through the correct Class-B objective lens.. Class-B objective lens filters out all light below 665 nm, hence no unfiltered light entering the cathode. However, use of ANVIS-9 with Class-A objectives (625nm limit) allows unfiltered red lighting to enter your tubes..

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                                Last edited by MSphere; 20th January 2016, 20:50.

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                                • Tango III
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2006
                                  • 25365

                                  It’s Russia’s Turn to Learn That Stealth Warplanes Are Hard to Do (excerpt)

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                                  • Tango III
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Sep 2006
                                    • 25365

                                    Reviving F-22 Raptor production a non-starter

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                                    • Tango III
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2006
                                      • 25365

                                      The F-15I As the IAF's Strategic Aircraft

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                                      • Tango III
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 25365

                                        Lockheed Martin installing special system on Israeli C-130J

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                                        • Tango III
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 25365

                                          Northrop Will Fly T-X Prototype This Year

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