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  • Spitfire9
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Jul 2008
    • 2834

    Congress Looks Into Restarting the F-22 Raptor

    Congress is looking into restarting production of the F-22 fighter jet, according to a defense bill proposal released Tuesday.
    http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...roduction.html

    ?
    Sum ergo cogito

    Comment

    • alexz
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Nov 2010
      • 325

      Originally posted by Spitfire9 View Post
      Congress Looks Into Restarting the F-22 Raptor
      ?
      It is still a good option to restart f-22 production rather than designing another stealthy air superiority fighter from scratch.

      The issue is, currently who owns all the tools? The Us government or LM? If they are owned by the government, could an open tender be sought for the restart of the f-22 production?

      Comment

      • Spitfire9
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jul 2008
        • 2834

        Originally posted by alexz View Post
        It is still a good option to restart f-22 production rather than designing another stealthy air superiority fighter from scratch.

        The issue is, currently who owns all the tools? The Us government or LM? If they are owned by the government, could an open tender be sought for the restart of the f-22 production?
        If they are seriously looking at getting more F-22, any chance of any of the later technology (and possibly cheaper/more maintainable/more reliable technology) from F-35 being used to reduce the cost of building/maintaining F-22?
        Sum ergo cogito

        Comment

        • SpudmanWP
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2009
          • 5292

          IMHO The quickest way to restart F-22 production "if" new/updated avionics are needed is to adopt the F-35's avionics package, lock, stock, and barrel (Yes, including the AEOTS).

          The only significant change would be to increase the size of the array for the APG-81 and adapt the sensor bays to the Barracuda ESM.

          Obviously the middleware packages will need to be redone to interface with F-22 specific hardware such as flight controls, engine controls, misc sensors, etc.

          An added benefit of this is that the F-22 would get feature updates when the F-35 does (weapons, radar & ESM modes, threat libraries, etc)

          All that being said, it's not likely to ever happen (restarting the program)
          "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

          Comment

          • djcross
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2000
            • 5456

            Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
            IMHO The quickest way to restart F-22 production "if" new/updated avionics are needed is to adopt the F-35's avionics package, lock, stock, and barrel (Yes, including the AEOTS).

            The only significant change would be to increase the size of the array for the APG-81 and adapt the sensor bays to the Barracuda ESM.

            Obviously the middleware packages will need to be redone to interface with F-22 specific hardware such as flight controls, engine controls, misc sensors, etc.

            An added benefit of this is that the F-22 would get feature updates when the F-35 does (weapons, radar & ESM modes, threat libraries, etc)

            All that being said, it's not likely to ever happen (restarting the program)
            F-35 avionics suite technology is frozen in year 2000 and does not comply with the Pentagon's current requirements for Open System Architecture, Information Assurance and Anti-Tamper.

            And the F-22 airframe does not carry enough jet fuel to provide the 1500-2000 NM combat radius needed to reduce the need for close basing (to minimize the effects of SRBM attack and reliance on massive fleets of tankers). F-22 airframe also requires significant redesign to support the Low Observables technologies that have been developed since the F-22 design was frozen in the late 1980s.

            And the above doesn't address the additional changes needed to support DEWs, cyber, unmanned, AI and other capabilities that would be found on a Gen 6 jet.

            Comment

            • Tango III
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2006
              • 25365

              US lawmakers want cost data for building 194 more F-22s

              Comment

              • Tango III
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2006
                • 25365

                F-35B May Be In Spanish Navy's Future

                Comment

                • SpudmanWP
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 5292

                  Originally posted by djcross View Post
                  F-35 avionics suite technology is frozen in year 2000 and does not comply with the Pentagon's current requirements for Open System Architecture, Information Assurance and Anti-Tamper.
                  Source?

                  The F-35's avionics are primarily software based and are designed to be upgraded as needed (ie not frozen 2000 tech). For example, part of the Blcok3i upgrade included new processing cards, new radar modules, new ESM module, etc. The F-35's avionics are also interconnected with fiber to ensure future-proofing against higher bandwidth needs.

                  And the F-22 airframe does not carry enough jet fuel to provide the 1500-2000 NM combat radius needed to reduce the need for close basing (to minimize the effects of SRBM attack and reliance on massive fleets of tankers). F-22 airframe also requires significant redesign to support the Low Observables technologies that have been developed since the F-22 design was frozen in the late 1980s.

                  And the above doesn't address the additional changes needed to support DEWs, cyber, unmanned, AI and other capabilities that would be found on a Gen 6 jet.
                  None of which involved the question at hand, restarting the F-22 line.
                  "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                  Comment

                  • Tango III
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 25365

                    Russian Space-Age Stealth Bomber to Hit the Skies With Hypersonic Weapons

                    Comment

                    • Tango III
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 25365

                      Colombian Army seeks cargo aircraft

                      Comment

                      • djcross
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2000
                        • 5456

                        Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                        Source?

                        The F-35's avionics are primarily software based and are designed to be upgraded as needed (ie not frozen 2000 tech). For example, part of the Blcok3i upgrade included new processing cards, new radar modules, new ESM module, etc. The F-35's avionics are also interconnected with fiber to ensure future-proofing against higher bandwidth needs.

                        None of which involved the question at hand, restarting the F-22 line.
                        An example of frozen 2000 technology is F-35's IEEE 1394 data communications standard with a max rate of 3.2G/sec. Today's airborne Ethernet data rate is 100 G/sec with 30x more capacity! The 1394 is a severe bottleneck in data communications which simply cannot support OSA and IP data transfer through multiple networked airborne nodes which need substantial bandwidth for transfer of sensor data. 1533 and 1760 data buses suffer from slow rates also.

                        As for not restarting F-22 due to combat radius deficiencies, why buy more of a weapon system with a known shortcoming? At least use the stretched fuselage and bat wing of the proposed FB-22 to get close to the needed combat radius.
                        Last edited by djcross; 20th April 2016, 19:18.

                        Comment

                        • SpudmanWP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 5292

                          You're mixing the issues....

                          On the interconnect side, simple solution that they have already talked about: Upgrade the interconnect transceivers & F-35 middleware.

                          They have been talking about multi-band/frequency laser transceivers to use the existing fiber interconnects so that you would get a huge boost in bandwidth with the needs to rewire the jet.

                          On the exterior datalinks... MADL is already the biggest secure pipe flying.

                          If they come up with something better, upgrade the transceivers & middleware... (see a trend?)

                          Point being, nothing is "frozen".
                          Last edited by SpudmanWP; 20th April 2016, 19:21.
                          "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                          Comment

                          • Tango III
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 25365

                            Myanmar, Latin America Interested in Russia’s Yak-130 Fighter Trainer

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                            • Tango III
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 25365

                              UK Wants To Be Europe's F-35 Avionics Sustainment Hub

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                              • Tango III
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 25365

                                Airbus Beats Boeing in $9.1 Billion Kuwaiti Fighter Jet Deal

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                                • Tango III
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Sep 2006
                                  • 25365

                                  Maiden Flight of X-2 Fighter Canceled

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                                  • Tango III
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Sep 2006
                                    • 25365

                                    DSA 2016: Pakistan bullish on JF-17 sales

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                                    • Tango III
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Sep 2006
                                      • 25365

                                      2 Cessna 208B Grand Caravan EX + 4 Cessna T-206H Stationair aircraft for Pakistan ِAF.

                                      Pentagon Contract Announcement

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                                      • Tango III
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 25365

                                        A Navy carrier just broke the record for dropping bombs on ISIS

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                                        • QuantumFX
                                          What?
                                          • Dec 2008
                                          • 1832

                                          Originally posted by Tango III View Post
                                          Fighter program wasn't cancelled. Only the 1st-flight for that day. but good news,

                                          Japan's X-2 Makes maiden Flight 22.April 2016

                                          Comment

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