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  • Tango III
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Sep 2006
    • 25365

    Swiss Defence Minister Guy Parmelin has announced a fighter jet strategy that involves refurbishing current planes for half a billion francs and laying the groundwork for purchasing new ones by 2025.

    Defence minister lays out fighter jet plan

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    • MSphere
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2010
      • 8983

      Errr.... Su-35 flying near Cabo de Sao Vicente?

      Comment

      • Tango III
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Sep 2006
        • 25365

        F-35B Weapons Load Testing Wraps Up on USS America during DT-III
        Last edited by Tango III; 23rd November 2016, 17:44.

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        • Tango III
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Sep 2006
          • 25365

          Can America's B-21 Raider Crush Future Russian Air Defenses?

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          • SpudmanWP
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jan 2009
            • 5292

            Originally posted by MSphere View Post
            the F-35 is cheaper than the Rafale, just ask Spud..
            Look at every single FMS sale for the F-18/15/Rafale vs the F-35 (Japan & SK) and the F-35 is cheaper. This jives with the leaked per-plane Rafale cost in the Indian deal ($103 mil each before the $50 mil each customization fee).

            The recent Kuwait F-18 FMS doc says $10.1 billion for 32 F-18s with weapons. The South Korean F-35 deal was less than $8 billion for 40 F-35s with weapons.

            http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...rcraft-support



            The F-15QA deal is $21.1 billion for 72 planes.

            http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales...elated-support
            Last edited by SpudmanWP; 22nd November 2016, 21:28.
            "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

            Comment

            • Tango III
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Sep 2006
              • 25365

              US Fighter Prices Explode As Production End Nears

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              • Tango III
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Sep 2006
                • 25365

                Did China Just Render America's $1 Trillion Stealth Fighter Program Obsolete?

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                • obligatory
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 7043

                  Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                  Nope, they're idiots
                  agree, lest they have a contract with USN to buy them once they make up their mind


                  It reminds me of Trump & the wall. It was a throwaway line that morphed into a 40-foot tall wall that he thinks Mexico will pay for.
                  lol

                  Comment

                  • SpudmanWP
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 5292

                    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                    Oh, what happened to your "those with access to real F-35 data know better than fanboys on the forum" rhetoric?
                    Canada is not making an informed decision.. there has not been a competition or even a detailed RFP. It's purely political.
                    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                    Comment

                    • Tango III
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 25365

                      New Zealand Outlines Airlift, Maritime Patrol Aircraft Needs

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                      • SpudmanWP
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 5292

                        Originally posted by obligatory View Post
                        agree, lest they have a contract with USN to buy them once they make up their mind
                        Congress will have to sign off on that and most of them know that an agreement like that will just end up making the F-35 cost more as it will reduce the F-35C buy. The USN cannot make any kind of contract like that on their own.
                        "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                        Comment

                        • SpudmanWP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 5292

                          Here is a cost breakdown of recent export sales.



                          http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...end-nears.html

                          Keep in mind that the price of an F-35A has dropped significantly since the South Korean deal that even then was ~$195 per (with weapons).
                          Last edited by SpudmanWP; 22nd November 2016, 23:29.
                          "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                          Comment

                          • Tango III
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 25365

                            Defence Contractors Unleash Massive Lobbying Efforts to Secure Fighter Jet Deal

                            Comment

                            • MSphere
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 8983

                              Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                              Look at every single FMS sale for the F-18/15/Rafale vs the F-35 (Japan & SK) and the F-35 is cheaper. This jives with the leaked per-plane Rafale cost in the Indian deal ($103 mil each before the $50 mil each customization fee).

                              The recent Kuwait F-18 FMS doc says $10.1 billion for 32 F-18s with weapons. The South Korean F-35 deal was less than $8 billion for 40 F-35s with weapons.
                              The F-15QA deal is $21.1 billion for 72 planes.
                              Right, so the Canadians are replacing the less expensive F-35A by more expensive Super Hornet as an interim solution, you say..
                              It's clear as hell that the Korean/Saudi/Kuwaiti deals are not even remotely comparable.. but don't get disturbed by the facts and continue your rant..

                              Comment

                              • MSphere
                                Senior Member
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 8983

                                Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                Canada is not making an informed decision.. there has not been a competition or even a detailed RFP. It's purely political.
                                Funny that until summer 2016 Canadians seemed perfectly informed and very objective for you..

                                Comment

                                • SpudmanWP
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2009
                                  • 5292

                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  Right, so the Canadians are replacing the less expensive F-35A by more expensive Super Hornet as an interim solution, you say..

                                  Funny that until summer 2016 Canadians seemed perfectly informed and very objective for you..
                                  Like I said... political decision that had little to do with the realities of the day.

                                  It's clear as hell that the Korean/Saudi/Kuwaiti deals are not even remotely comparable.. but don't get disturbed by the facts and continue your rant..
                                  You would think that one, ANY one of the Rafale, EF, F-18, or F-15 deals would be cheaper than either of the F-35 FMS deals... but they are not. You can't blame it on exchange rates since there are US deals on both sides of the fence. You can't blame it on platform since there were 4 to choose from that are all more expensive.

                                  There is simply no hard number you can point to (apples to apples) that shows that the F-35 is more expensive than the Rafale, EF, F-18SH, for F-15E+ when dealing with an export customer. The closest that anyone came was Boeing and the SK deal where they got to hide the details (no FMS docs) and did not have to include a whole host of items (support, training, tooling, etc) since SK already had advanced F-15Ks.

                                  Canada having a open competition would have been a first where the Rafale might compete and we can finally do a definitive Apples to Apples comparison, but they will likely chicken out like they did before.
                                  "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                  Comment

                                  • SpudmanWP
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 5292

                                    MODS---

                                    Can we get the Canadian related back-n-forth moved to the Canadian thread?

                                    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...er-Replacement

                                    Tangents... more than just a math problem
                                    Last edited by SpudmanWP; 22nd November 2016, 23:14.
                                    "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                    Comment

                                    • Voodoo
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Mar 2009
                                      • 161

                                      Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                      Canada is not making an informed decision.. there has not been a competition or even a detailed RFP. It's purely political.
                                      Yeah I have to agree. As much as I hate to admit it, I think the F-35 would be better off for us than the Sub-par hornet. Trudeau vehemently said that he would not go for the F-35 even if it turned out to be the best. IF they were to hold an open competition, he would lose face, and that can't happen. This interim buy will become permanent and the competition will be written to favor the Stupid bee and more will be procured.

                                      Comment

                                      • Tango III
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 25365

                                        The F-35 and the US's newest carrier are getting ready to dominate the seas

                                        The F-35B Just Got A Lot Deadlier

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                                        • Tango III
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 25365

                                          First Italian G550 AEW delivery expected soon

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