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  • MadRat
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2006
    • 5033

    Serbia can't even fly G-4 or G-22 due to budget lapses. They obviously cannot afford MiG-29, even if gifted to them.
    Go Huskers!

    Comment

    • djcross
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Jan 2000
      • 5456

      Russians blame MIG-29K crash on broken arrestor cable engine shutdown

      Comment

      • bring_it_on
        2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
        • Jun 2004
        • 12480

        It’s official: Canada’s fighter jet announcement

        Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan made a major announcement today about Canada’s controversial fighter jet purchase.

        The controversial plan by the previous government to replace Canada’s ageing fleet of CF-18 Hornets, with single source F-35’s appears now to have come to an end, at least for now.

        The CF-18’s currently flying, were originally given a service life expectancy of 20 years, but are now as much as 35 years old.Canada has an obligation to NORAD and also to NATO to have a specific number of airworthy fighters available at all times. Currently Canada cannot meet those obligations.In its decision today, the government announced its intention to explore acquisition of 18 of the F-18 Super Hornets as an interim measure to bolster the fleet immediately and meet its military obligations to NORAD and NATO.

        In making the announcement the government said it will be discussing with Boeing and the US government about buying the interim jets

        “at a cost, time, level of capability and economic value that is acceptable to Canada”.

        The interim measue will enable it to then conduct an “open and transparent competition” for replacement of the fleet.

        The Liberal government of Justin Trudeau said it would not buy the F-35’s agreed to by the previous Conservative government, and had said this summer it would instead single source the Super Hornet for fleet replacement.

        Faced with a storm of protest from opposition parties and industry, the Liberal government backed down.

        With the announcement of an “open” bidding process, the F-35 would perhaps be back in the running.

        Costs are a major question for any aircraft, and arriving at plausible figures seems difficult. Various countries have recently bought either the F-35 or Super Hornets, each time the costs per plane seem to be widely varied.
        Old radar types never die; they just phased array

        Comment

        • halloweene
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jan 2012
          • 4351

          18 only. Competition will be held later

          Comment

          • bring_it_on
            2005-year of the RAPTOR!!
            • Jun 2004
            • 12480

            Meanwhile, they still continue to participate in the F-35 program. The case for a split F-35 and F-18E/F buy becomes one possibility. For 60-65 total fighters it could well be a 20:40 split. It's going to be tough now to buy both the Super Hornet and the Gripen for example instead of just buying an all F-18E/F fleet. The window is open for them to acquire a slightly smaller fifth generation fleet than the previous government had planned now that the current government has delivered on its promise of not following up on the previous government's acquisition plan or strategy..much like the other two Classic Hornet operators in the US Navy and the RAAF that both bought or increased Super Hornet orders to account for the delays in the JSF program.
            Last edited by bring_it_on; 22nd November 2016, 19:41.
            Old radar types never die; they just phased array

            Comment

            • FBW
              FBW
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Dec 2011
              • 3295

              Trudeau's government-we protest the single source procurement of the F-35, we therefore will hold an open competition. No wait, we will single source an interim solution.

              Bets on if this actually goes through?

              Comment

              • SpudmanWP
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jan 2009
                • 5292

                Originally posted by bring_it_on View Post
                The case for a split F-35 and F-18E/F buy becomes one possibility. For 60-65 total fighters it could well be a 20:40 split.
                They are talking about a F-18 lease, not a buy of a small amount.

                If they were smart (lol), they should try and lease the F-35. At least then there is an active market for it if & when something else wins the comp.
                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                Comment

                • Loke
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 3302

                  Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                  They are talking about a F-18 lease, not a buy of a small amount.

                  If they were smart (lol), they should try and lease the F-35. At least then there is an active market for it if & when something else wins the comp.
                  Where does it say lease?

                  Anyway, interesting development. I also suspect they may end up with a mix of SH and F-35. 40-20 split?

                  Comment

                  • TomcatViP
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 6112

                    We have picture here and for the Kowait deal of an enhanced SH (414, WP, CFT). Any idea if this is for real (Kuwait has ordered a small batch of CFT and full batch of 414).

                    Interesting outcomes for the Hornet after everybody had bait on its predictable extinction.

                    Comment

                    • SpudmanWP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 5292

                      Originally posted by Loke View Post
                      Where does it say lease?
                      http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1158669&tp=1

                      "The Government will enter into discussions with the U.S. Government and Boeing regarding use of these jets for an interim period of time. "

                      That screams lease.

                      Originally posted by Loke View Post
                      I also suspect they may end up with a mix of SH and F-35. 40-20 split?
                      Any purchase cost benefit of the SH over the F-35 would disappear as they would need two supply lines, training programs, etc.

                      Idiots, every one.
                      Last edited by SpudmanWP; 22nd November 2016, 20:44.
                      "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                      Comment

                      • Tango III
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 25365

                        Canada says it will buy 18 Super Hornet fighter jets — but the cost of aircraft is unknown

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                        • MSphere
                          Senior Member
                          • Feb 2010
                          • 8983

                          Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                          Any purchase cost benefit of the SH over the F-35 would disappear as they would need two supply lines, training programs, etc.
                          Idiots, every one.
                          Or maybe they know something that you don't..

                          Comment

                          • TomcatViP
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 6112

                            Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                            http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1158669&tp=1

                            "The Government will enter into discussions with the U.S. Government and Boeing regarding use of these jets for an interim period of time. "

                            That screams lease.


                            Any purchase cost benefit of the SH over the F-35 would disappear as they would need two supply lines, training programs, etc.

                            Idiots, every one.
                            I think they might want to lease in order to not be involved in a buy and then avoid LM breaking their contracts with the network of Canadian subcontractors.
                            That would mean a single type in the future (no Hornet/SH and something else). That way, they combine the momentum of LM investment and other potential competitors.

                            Comment

                            • SpudmanWP
                              Rank 5 Registered User
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 5292

                              You have to love reporters who don't do any research.

                              Here is the line from the Press Release that talks about the "interim" decision.

                              In addition, Canada will immediately explore the acquisition of 18 new Super Hornet aircraft to supplement the CF-18s until the permanent replacement arrives. The Government will enter into discussions with the U.S. Government and Boeing regarding use of these jets for an interim period of time.
                              It's pretty clear that it's a lease.

                              Unfortunately most reporters only listen to politicians who themselves had a pre-conceived notion of what they wanted (ie not the F-35) so any reporting thereof says "purchase of" (ie outright buy) rather than lease or "use of".

                              http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1158669&tp=1
                              "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                              Comment

                              • SpudmanWP
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 5292

                                Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                Or maybe they know something that you don't..
                                Nope, they're idiots

                                The whole anti-JSF movement in Canada started as a throwaway Opposition Argument used to try and win votes. Their primary argument was that the JSF was a no-bid, sole-source contract yet they tried to do the same thing with the F-18.

                                It reminds me of Trump & the wall. It was a throwaway line that morphed into a 40-foot tall wall that he thinks Mexico will pay for. Now that he won they are already walking that back into a more reasonable position.
                                Last edited by SpudmanWP; 22nd November 2016, 21:12.
                                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                                Comment

                                • MSphere
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Feb 2010
                                  • 8983

                                  Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                                  We have picture here and for the Kowait deal of an enhanced SH (414, WP, CFT). Any idea if this is for real (Kuwait has ordered a small batch of CFT and full batch of 414).

                                  Interesting outcomes for the Hornet after everybody had bait on its predictable extinction.
                                  What's even more funny is that, judging by the various figures having floated around (India, Malaysia, Brazil, Middle East), the export cost of Super Hornet and Rafale is pretty much on par. Now we are seeing Canada giving up the F-35 to F/A-18E/F based on cost.. but hey, the F-35 is cheaper than the Rafale, just ask Spud..

                                  Hmmmm.. makes sense..

                                  Comment

                                  • MSphere
                                    Senior Member
                                    • Feb 2010
                                    • 8983

                                    Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                    Nope, they're idiots
                                    Oh, what happened to your "those with access to real F-35 data know better than fanboys on the forum" rhetoric?

                                    Talking about idiots, well.. have you ever considered for a second that maybe it's you with your F-35 flyaway cost figures nobody givs sh!t about? Think about it for a while..
                                    Last edited by MSphere; 22nd November 2016, 21:13.

                                    Comment

                                    • Loke
                                      Rank 5 Registered User
                                      • Jun 2008
                                      • 3302

                                      Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                      Nope, they're idiots
                                      Well, they are politicians; what did you expect?

                                      Comment

                                      • Tango III
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Sep 2006
                                        • 25365

                                        NATO Jets Tracked Russia's Su-35 Jet's Flight Over Atlantic Ocean - Reports

                                        Comment

                                        • Tango III
                                          Rank 5 Registered User
                                          • Sep 2006
                                          • 25365

                                          New Su-30, Il-38 planes and other top picks of the Russian Navy this year

                                          Comment

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