Tornado F3 vs F14s from an RAF pilot

By: BarnesW - 13th October 2015 at 12:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

I found a brilliant interview of an ex RAF Tornado F3 pilot talking about his DACT sorties with 2 F14s and 2 F-18s against 2 F3s and 2 Hawks when on detachment. Very interesting plus a great story of what happened after the sorties!
http://www.aircrewinterview.tv/new-page/

When's the bit about the F3?

By: BarnesW - 13th October 2015 at 13:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

What's the missile on the Hawks he mentions at 34:00?

By: Duggy - 13th October 2015 at 14:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

Quote -- "Although British Hawks were obtained for the training mission, 88 of them were modified between 1983 and 1986 for a secondary air defense function through carriage of two US-built AIM-9L Sidewinder air-to-air missiles (AAMs). These Sidewinder-compatible Hawks were designated "T.1A"; the Red Arrows fly the T.1A, it seems on the rationale that if shooting were to suddenly break out, it might be wise for a group of some of the RAF's best pilots to be flying something they could fight with, though presumably not before their mounts got a quick new paint job to something less attention-getting than bright red."

By: BarnesW - 13th October 2015 at 15:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

It's Sidewinder AIM
9L (Lima's).

Ah right. It was the 'LIMA' that confused me. I heard M-9 Leema.:stupid:

By: mikoyan - 13th October 2015 at 16:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

so whats new exactly ? Americans being arrogant and bitch slapped by euro pilots flying either similar aircrafts or inferior

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=63009

remember all the time, during air=air engagements above here between the US F15Cs and Dutch F16s versus Sea Harriers, 90% of the engagements had the F-15Cs defeated and the pilots made up lots of excuses on the radio to "Freddy", the GCI controller and really did not like a foreign type/pilot successfully engaging them in their mighty F-15C's.
I can just imagine the same going with the USAF F-22 pilots. I wonder what their reactions were or if there was any excuses. I used to love listening to the F15 pilots grumble about being whacked by Sea Harriers nearly everytime they came down for DACT.

http://www.16va.be/mig-29_experience.htm

Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’. We didn’t operate kill removal (forcing ‘killed’ aircraft to leave the fight) since they’d have got no training value, we killed them too quickly. (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!

By: mig-31bm - 13th October 2015 at 18:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

so whats new exactly ? Americans being arrogant and bitch slapped by euro pilots flying either similar aircrafts or inferior

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=63009

remember all the time, during air=air engagements above here between the US F15Cs and Dutch F16s versus Sea Harriers, 90% of the engagements had the F-15Cs defeated and the pilots made up lots of excuses on the radio to "Freddy", the GCI controller and really did not like a foreign type/pilot successfully engaging them in their mighty F-15C's.
I can just imagine the same going with the USAF F-22 pilots. I wonder what their reactions were or if there was any excuses. I used to love listening to the F15 pilots grumble about being whacked by Sea Harriers nearly everytime they came down for DACT.

http://www.16va.be/mig-29_experience.htm

Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’. We didn’t operate kill removal (forcing ‘killed’ aircraft to leave the fight) since they’d have got no training value, we killed them too quickly. (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!

i dont think F-22 is necessary superior to Typhoon in close combat , and in F-16 vs Mig-29 case, the Mig-29 have HMD and HOBS missiles while f-16 didn't, thus Mig-29 have very significant advantage

By: F/A-XX - 14th October 2015 at 02:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

so whats new exactly ? Americans being arrogant and bitch slapped by euro pilots flying either similar aircrafts or inferior

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=287&t=63009

remember all the time, during air=air engagements above here between the US F15Cs and Dutch F16s versus Sea Harriers, 90% of the engagements had the F-15Cs defeated and the pilots made up lots of excuses on the radio to "Freddy", the GCI controller and really did not like a foreign type/pilot successfully engaging them in their mighty F-15C's.
I can just imagine the same going with the USAF F-22 pilots. I wonder what their reactions were or if there was any excuses. I used to love listening to the F15 pilots grumble about being whacked by Sea Harriers nearly everytime they came down for DACT.

http://www.16va.be/mig-29_experience.htm

Even against the latest Block 50 F-16s the MiG-29 is virtually invulnerable in the close-in scenario. On one occasion I remember the F-16s did score some kills eventually, but only after taking 18 ‘Archers’. We didn’t operate kill removal (forcing ‘killed’ aircraft to leave the fight) since they’d have got no training value, we killed them too quickly. (Just as we might seldom have got close-in if they used their AMRAAMs BVR!) They couldn’t believe it at the debrief, they got up and left the room!

What rubbish. The reason you hear about incidents like this is because they are not the norm. Sea Harriers beat F-15s 90% of the time? Sure... sounds like unsubstantiated chest-thumping to me, just like how Cope India (according to the Indian Air Force) consisted of MiG-21s shooting down the entire USAF with minimal losses.

Considering how Typhoon, Rafale and Super Hornet pilots brag like they just blew up the Death Star when they finally score a kill on a F-22 in WVR it speaks more about the F-22's capabilities and reputation than anything else. Evidently it is a pretty big deal for them.

By: Y-20 Bacon - 14th October 2015 at 09:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

so basically

pilot said

If F-14s were allowed to use the phoenix, we'd be wasted
4-5 different merging scenarios, Tornadoes attempted a hit and run tactic, Hawks kept nibbling on the heels of the 18s and 14s, Brits win completely
pilot wouldn't want to do the jobs of carrier pilots

end of story.

nice stuff. its worth noting the RAF heavily considered the F-15 and F-14 to meet their interceptor needs against soviet bombers before settling on an inhouse design.

By: Duggy - 14th October 2015 at 16:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

When the Phantom FG.1 was phased out of Royal Navy service in 1977, the survivors were passed on to the RAF. Since the FG.1 lacked the nav-attack systems for overland attack, the FAA Phantoms were used in the air-defense role in RAF service. The Royal Navy provided flight training for RAF pilots flying the FG.1 to ensure quick introduction to service. RAF FG.1s often intercepted and escorted Soviet ocean-patrol aircraft in the North Sea, the most common type being the Tu-95 "Bear". This was not particularly exciting duty, though it did have some amusing aspects, as one FG.1 pilot, Wing Commander Dave Wood, later recalled: "

In the daytime the mission was straightforward, and there was time for a little play with the "Bears". As far as the Soviets went, this got a little out of hand, for they started putting a KGB officer on board to stop the crew waving at us.

Some "Bear" variants had a crawlway between the front and back compartments -- a long and uncomfortable journey that involved clambering over unprotected wing spars and other obstructions. We soon worked out that by moving our jet forwards and backwards we could get this poor idiot to spend hours crawling back and forth down this tunnel, just to stop the crew from waving at us."

:dev2:

By: Teer - 14th October 2015 at 20:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

What rubbish. The reason you hear about incidents like this is because they are not the norm. Sea Harriers beat F-15s 90% of the time? Sure... sounds like unsubstantiated chest-thumping to me, just like how Cope India (according to the Indian Air Force) consisted of MiG-21s shooting down the entire USAF with minimal losses.

Can you lay off the hyperbole? Cope India was revealed by AvLeak and it was only the USAF which spoke about it. The IAF said nothing.
Read and figure.
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-iaf-usaf-su30-f15-article01.html
http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/exercise-cope-india-article02.html

By: TR1 - 15th October 2015 at 01:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00

" As far as the Soviets went, this got a little out of hand, for they started putting a KGB officer on board to stop the crew waving at us."

Do people actually believe this?