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Could Russia surpass China for arms imports to Pakistan?

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  • Y-20 Bacon
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2013
    • 2176

    Could Russia surpass China for arms imports to Pakistan?

    Assuming the SU-35 deal goes through.. it'll mean Pakistan will operate the most advanced Flanker variant in Asia..
    it also continues a trend that when given the choice, Pakistan will opt for non-Chinese alternative (and if stuck with Chinese, will insist on western modifications).

    For Russia, it simply expands a market. They already sell to both Armenia and Azerbaijan, China and Vietnam, and now India and Pakistan.
    and why not, the US sells F-16s to Pakistan and offered a better version to India.

    Potential things in Pakistan that need replacement
    T-37s with Yak-130s (although they recently got a crapload of T-38 Talons from Turkey).
    Mi-28 or Ka-52s instead of Z-10s
    T-90s over T-84s and MBT-2000s and 3000s
    Gorshkov frigates
  • Freehand
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • May 2012
    • 986

    #2
    Didn't Pakistan just order some AH-1Z's?

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...stan/25409157/

    Comment

    • haavarla
      Rank 5 Registered User
      • Dec 2008
      • 6699

      #3
      Well, they ordered 4 more Mi-24M
      Thanks

      Comment

      • vikasrehman
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Apr 2004
        • 1763

        #4
        Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
        Assuming the SU-35 deal goes through.. it'll mean Pakistan will operate the most advanced Flanker variant in Asia..
        it also continues a trend that when given the choice, Pakistan will opt for non-Chinese alternative (and if stuck with Chinese, will insist on western modifications).

        For Russia, it simply expands a market. They already sell to both Armenia and Azerbaijan, China and Vietnam, and now India and Pakistan.
        and why not, the US sells F-16s to Pakistan and offered a better version to India.

        Potential things in Pakistan that need replacement
        T-37s with Yak-130s (although they recently got a crapload of T-38 Talons from Turkey).
        Mi-28 or Ka-52s instead of Z-10s
        T-90s over T-84s and MBT-2000s and 3000s
        Gorshkov frigates
        No! At least not in the near to mid term future, for the reasons that I'm sure have been discussed before on this forum on multiple occasions. Also, I don't think this question merits a separate thread.
        Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true. Demosthenes

        Comment

        • Vnomad
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • May 2011
          • 2859

          #5
          Originally posted by haavarla View Post
          Well, they ordered 4 more Mi-24M
          Over and above the Mi-35s ordered before? Source?

          Comment

          • fatman17
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Apr 2009
            • 34

            #6
            Originally posted by Freehand View Post
            Didn't Pakistan just order some AH-1Z's?

            http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...stan/25409157/
            yes 15 vipers with hellfires

            Comment

            • fatman17
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Apr 2009
              • 34

              #7
              Originally posted by haavarla View Post
              Well, they ordered 4 more Mi-24M
              Mi35s

              Comment

              • fatman17
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Apr 2009
                • 34

                #8
                Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                Assuming the SU-35 deal goes through.. it'll mean Pakistan will operate the most advanced Flanker variant in Asia..
                it also continues a trend that when given the choice, Pakistan will opt for non-Chinese alternative (and if stuck with Chinese, will insist on western modifications).

                For Russia, it simply expands a market. They already sell to both Armenia and Azerbaijan, China and Vietnam, and now India and Pakistan.
                and why not, the US sells F-16s to Pakistan and offered a better version to India.

                Potential things in Pakistan that need replacement
                T-37s with Yak-130s (although they recently got a crapload of T-38 Talons from Turkey).
                Mi-28 or Ka-52s instead of Z-10s
                T-90s over T-84s and MBT-2000s and 3000s
                Gorshkov frigates
                Russia will only sell defensive weapons systems at this point in time. cannot say what the future holds.
                replacements
                for T37 they are also looking at T-50, Hirkus and L-15. money will be the issue here as in other procurements.
                for AH1F they have ordered AH1Z and Mi35. Z10 is under evaluation.
                for MBTs they will stick with the Chinese with Ukrainian or German power plants.
                for frigates probably more advanced F22Ps from China.
                share of imports
                US 30%
                China 30%

                Comment

                • Y-20 Bacon
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2013
                  • 2176

                  #9
                  Originally posted by vikasrehman View Post
                  No! At least not in the near to mid term future, for the reasons that I'm sure have been discussed before on this forum on multiple occasions. Also, I don't think this question merits a separate thread.
                  yes it warrants a separate thread because its not only about the su-35 deal. Russia has already been selling things to Pakistan and now its expanding beyond defensive equipment. Pakistan wants Russian if the option is available.

                  Comment

                  • nkvd
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Sep 2013
                    • 225

                    #10
                    there is zero chance of Pakistan buying su-35.its politically not doable and besides Pakistan has no money.there is no substance to this story.but if and when India does an Egypt on Russia then we can talk about this kind of deal.
                    Last edited by nkvd; 22nd September 2015, 16:04.

                    Comment

                    • Buran
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 504

                      #11
                      Originally posted by nkvd View Post
                      there is zero chance of Pakistan buying su-35.its politically not doable and besides Pakistan has no money.there is no substance to this story.but if and when India does an Egypt on Russia then we can talk about this kind of deal.

                      If hundreds of RD93 engines, MI-17s and MI35s can be sold what political reason is there to not sell SU35s? Doesn't US sell arms to both India and Pakistan?

                      I think Russians want to play the same game as US and gain economic and political advantages out of it. Things are changing very fast in that regions. Rostech was even negotiating to build a €2.5billion pipeline in Pakistan.

                      Both countries can benefit from this transaction, Pakistan can show US and China that it has "other options" similarly Russians can make India jealous by going out with someone else.
                      Last edited by Buran; 24th September 2015, 17:34.

                      Comment

                      • TangoLima1
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 40

                        #12
                        It is all about money. Anything is possible. But I believe China offers very favorable financial terms to Pakistan to support sales? The Russian government is not exactly flushed with cash due to sanctions and depressed commodity prices...so can the Russian government afford to underwrite /finance cheap hardware to support sales?

                        Comment

                        • JSR
                          JSR
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 4976

                          #13
                          Russia has still $370b reserves for 145m population. China has $3.6T for 1.4b population. Russia produce much larger trade surpluses, less outflows and lower debt relative to population. so money in banking is sufficient. ultimately the this deal or any other wont depend on finances but what it is end impact of Su-35.
                          like helping countries in Middleast/CIS or Venzuela helps in greater oil production. Chinese are simply not that good in investments and military exports at right places.

                          Comment

                          • Deino
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Jan 2000
                            • 4226

                            #14
                            Ohhh YES, Russia is Supa !! Mega, Hypa, Besta, Bigga ... we all know it now.
                            ...

                            He was my North, my South, my East and West,
                            My working week and my Sunday rest,
                            My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song;
                            I thought that love would last forever; I was wrong.

                            The stars are not wanted now; put out every one:
                            Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
                            Pour away the ocean and sweep up the woods:
                            For nothing now can ever come to any good.
                            -------------------------------------------------
                            W.H.Auden (1945)

                            Comment

                            • MSphere
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2010
                              • 8983

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Deino View Post
                              Ohhh YES, Russia is Supa !! Mega, Hypa, Besta, Bigga ... we all know it now.
                              I think you guys need to grow up from those childish responses concentrating on the messenger rather than message itself. Russian foreign exchange reserve per capita (~$2,514) is comparable to China (~$2,694), UK (~$2,401) or Germany (~$2,329).

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...hange_reserves

                              Comment

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