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  • JSR
    JSR
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Aug 2011
    • 4976

    Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
    And all that thanks to a massive strategic airlift asset built in... Ukraine
    It is not built in Ukraine. They can built it only if Russia supply them with parts and labor to built it.

    http://www.aviastar-sp.ru/en/about/milestones/

    Comment

    • Y-20 Bacon
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2013
      • 2176

      Originally posted by Captain Ouuf View Post
      I do believe Ka-52s will eventually be deployed. Apaches were not deployed in Libya until several months after the air strikes started. Ka-52s have superb self defense suites and have much better survivability compared to Mi-24s.

      indeed. KA-52s are more superior to the Mi-28s because of those defensive suites..
      this is getting exciting to be honest..

      a real life multiplayer super smash brothers in Syria! lets go!

      Comment

      • Flyboy77
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Oct 2007
        • 313

        Photo of the Flight Line

        Comment

        • mrmalaya
          Generation 4.75+++
          • Jan 2010
          • 4664

          When did Russia last deploy to the Middle East? I wonder what operational lessons will be learned? It is a very long line of aircraft at a base that has recently been attacked is it not?

          Comment

          • El_Indigo
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jul 2006
            • 287

            Originally posted by TR1 View Post
            Better than any helicopter save the Mi-28. I doubt its survivability is significantly lower than the Mi-28's in combat as well, plus it has ejection seats. Certainly no worse than the deployed Mi-24s protection.

            And it has the huge advantage of a full defensive suit (unlike Mi-28N to date or Su-25SM, not to even mention Mi-24/35) in addition to the DIRCM.
            Being able to know you are under MANPAD fire + have a means to disable them >>>> a slight armor advantage.
            Mi-28 has more then a slight armor advantage over 52. Like I said DIRCM is nice and all. But bigger threat in that mess will be good all fashion AA and your regular small arms wielding beardie.

            Comment

            • Levsha
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Jan 2006
              • 2851

              Originally posted by El_Indigo View Post
              Mi-28 has more then a slight armor advantage over 52. Like I said DIRCM is nice and all. But bigger threat in that mess will be good all fashion AA and your regular small arms wielding beardie.
              At night time AA guns and small arms are not much use, that is when the Ka-52 will have the advantage. Also, the Ka-52 and Mi-28 should be able to attack ground targets ell outside the range of such anti-aircraft weapons - even in daytime.

              Comment

              • Marcellogo
                Rank 5 Registered User
                • Jun 2014
                • 1838

                Originally posted by Wanderlei View Post
                Yeh, Blah is all we can say today pretty much.

                I'm also thinking what the hell was Putin thinking 12 months ago! Was he giving up on Assad and Syria all together, or was he planning this move knowing nothing much will change despite USAF and coalition bombing for a year, so he will wait for the right moment to step in and look good on the news :-)

                Anyhow,

                I'm waiting to hear now about those Mig-29M2 finally coming. Supposedly they were built and ready for delivery couple years ago for SAAF and were even considered to be sold to Serbian AF.Not sure if that was disputed later.
                IMHO they had to wait until the Iran nuclear deal was concluded, just note how involvement started up slowly and ramped up after it survived US Congress votes.
                Ukraine crisis also messed up things great time, sparkling irrationalistic (N.B. it is not the same than irrational) game of action and reaction between Russia and NATO: they closed Bulgarian airspace and so they had to find a longer and more risky route.

                In every case Russia can capitalize now the fact it can have friends (few) and antagonists (many) but no one is in such bad terms or so powerful to refuse to deal with or ignore what it say .
                So they can just put themselves as a middleman and strike separate deals with all the involved parties, even if they are sworn enemies between one's another.
                Last edited by Marcellogo; 22nd September 2015, 10:45.

                Comment

                • ink
                  ink
                  Rank 5 Registered User
                  • Jan 2000
                  • 3575

                  Russia to Coordinate Military Actions with Israel


                  ... so says Al Jazeera: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/0...045752894.html
                  Regards, Ivan

                  Comment

                  • hopsalot
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2012
                    • 3166

                    Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                    indeed. KA-52s are more superior to the Mi-28s because of those defensive suites..
                    this is getting exciting to be honest..

                    a real life multiplayer super smash brothers in Syria! lets go!

                    Except this is war and people are going to die...

                    Now obviously there is already a war and people are already dying, but people should keep in mind this is serious business. If one of those planes goes down over badguyland it won't be any laughing matter.

                    Comment

                    • MSphere
                      Senior Member
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 8983

                      Originally posted by El_Indigo View Post
                      Mi-28 has more then a slight armor advantage over 52. Like I said DIRCM is nice and all. But bigger threat in that mess will be good all fashion AA and your regular small arms wielding beardie.
                      Debatable.. Mi-28 is more likely better protected in the front/cockpit area. Ka-52, OTOH, is virtually invulnerable in the tail area as all vital systems are installed in the center and it can continue the flight even with the tail completely separated. Try that with an Mi-28 with its tail boom shot off.

                      Comment

                      • Y-20 Bacon
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2013
                        • 2176

                        Originally posted by El_Indigo View Post
                        Mi-28 has more then a slight armor advantage over 52. Like I said DIRCM is nice and all. But bigger threat in that mess will be good all fashion AA and your regular small arms wielding beardie.
                        seems like everyone here is consensus that ka-52 has more advantages than disadvantages vs the mi-28

                        Comment

                        • JSR
                          JSR
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Aug 2011
                          • 4976

                          Originally posted by hopsalot View Post
                          Except this is war and people are going to die...

                          Now obviously there is already a war and people are already dying, but people should keep in mind this is serious business. If one of those planes goes down over badguyland it won't be any laughing matter.
                          that's why you use attack choppers and UAVs that if plane goes down and bad guys converge than you have option of second time blast them.
                          I will even think Smerch and Iskander will provide much more rapid response.

                          Comment

                          • JSR
                            JSR
                            Rank 5 Registered User
                            • Aug 2011
                            • 4976

                            Originally posted by Marcellogo View Post
                            IMHO they had to wait until the Iran nuclear deal was concluded, just note how involvement started up slowly and ramped up after it survived US Congress votes.
                            Ukraine crisis also messed up things great time, sparkling irrationalistic (N.B. it is not the same than irrational) game of action and reaction between Russia and NATO: they closed Bulgarian airspace and so they had to find a longer and more risky route.

                            In every case Russia can capitalize now the fact it can have friends (few) and antagonists (many) but no one is in such bad terms or so powerful to refuse to deal with or ignore what it say .
                            So they can just put themselves as a middleman and strike separate deals with all the involved parties, even if they are sworn enemies between one's another.
                            Actually the Bulgaria route is much more distance as you have to go wide across Turkey and it is un safe if planes have trouble. It is much more friendly to fly over Irak/Iran airbases.

                            I will not be surprised if Putin announce that this whole operation is for safety and security of Israel than no western countries will be able to oppose it.
                            and it will further alienate the Arab street as they think Putin is bombing them for Israel and no one is opposing it.

                            Comment

                            • Captain Ouuf
                              Rank 4 Registered User
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 90

                              Originally posted by Wanderlei View Post
                              Yeh, Blah is all we can say today pretty much.

                              I'm also thinking what the hell was Putin thinking 12 months ago!
                              Last year Assad was winning. If you recall, Homs was recaptured last year. Rebels captured Idlib this year so Russia has to intervene.

                              Comment

                              • Marcellogo
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Jun 2014
                                • 1838

                                Originally posted by JSR View Post
                                Actually the Bulgaria route is much more distance as you have to go wide across Turkey and it is un safe if planes have trouble. It is much more friendly to fly over Irak/Iran airbases.

                                I will not be surprised if Putin announce that this whole operation is for safety and security of Israel than no western countries will be able to oppose it.
                                and it will further alienate the Arab street as they think Putin is bombing them for Israel and no one is opposing it.
                                Still Su-30SM passed over Europe the same, they were the first to be spotted and remained the same exact number once such route was closed.
                                Don't know exactly for what reason it happened like so, maybe they were stationed on Sevastopol or maybe they doesn't like modern fighters passing trough a war zone.
                                In every case if you have to pass trough Caspian Sea and all of Iran, Iraq and Syria and get to Latakia that is on the sea I think is more distance anyway.
                                Did someone know if Azerbaijan allow passage?
                                Last edited by Marcellogo; 22nd September 2015, 14:50.

                                Comment

                                • SajeevJino
                                  Rank 5 Registered User
                                  • Jan 2013
                                  • 104

                                  .

                                  Really


                                  The Aviationist ‏@TheAviationist 17m17 minutes ago

                                  One of our readers says that rumors on Russian aviation forums are that Su-34 Fullbacks deployed to Syria but returned home. Hard to believe
                                  https://twitter.com/TheAviationist/s...45332784263168
                                  To be a Free Nation in our own Land. The Land of Zion and Jerusalem My Blog

                                  Comment

                                  • JangBoGo
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Jan 2011
                                    • 1506

                                    Originally posted by Captain Ouuf View Post
                                    Last year Assad was winning. If you recall, Homs was recaptured last year. Rebels captured Idlib this year so Russia has to intervene.
                                    Let me correct it for you.

                                    Last year Assad was winning. If you recall, Homs was recaptured last year. US (& NATO) starts its so-called campaign against ISIS. ISIL & other terrorists groups grow in strength. Rebels captured Idlib this year so Russia has to intervene.

                                    Comment

                                    • Captain Ouuf
                                      Rank 4 Registered User
                                      • Apr 2015
                                      • 90

                                      Originally posted by JangBoGo View Post
                                      Let me correct it for you.
                                      ISIS has nothing to do with conquest of Idlib. It was Nusra that did it. Nusra is US ally, tacitly.

                                      Comment

                                      • TR1
                                        TR1
                                        http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
                                        • Oct 2010
                                        • 9818

                                        Originally posted by El_Indigo View Post
                                        Mi-28 has more then a slight armor advantage over 52. Like I said DIRCM is nice and all. But bigger threat in that mess will be good all fashion AA and your regular small arms wielding beardie.
                                        Ka-52 also has no tail rotor- a big vulnerability to AA and small arms- as shown by Mi-24 experience in A-stan.

                                        Mi-28 has a big cockpit armor advantage, but I am not seeing it elsewhere.
                                        sigpic

                                        Comment

                                        • MSphere
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Feb 2010
                                          • 8983

                                          Originally posted by Y-20 Bacon View Post
                                          seems like everyone here is consensus that ka-52 has more advantages than disadvantages vs the mi-28
                                          The Ka-52 is a more innovative concept, with more sophisticated electronics while the Mi-28N uses a proven drivetrain design, similar to Mi-35s. Theoretically, the Mi-28N should be more reliable but in real life the Ka-52 has become a beloved darling of the pilots and maintenance crews while the Mi-28N is still kinda pain in the a$$, often plagued by teething problems, esp. vibrations.
                                          Last edited by MSphere; 22nd September 2015, 17:36.

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