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  • Jō Asakura
    多聞天
    • Jan 2011
    • 1302

    The PAK-FA News, Pics & Debate Thread XXV

    Originally posted by Confucius says View Post
    With 3000+ posts and hopefully great MAKS photos coming soon, isn't it time for a new thread?

    btw spasiba to all the learned contributors
    Confucius also say:

    ...if T-50-6-2 no fly soon, me gonna eat it!!


    1.44's regular parking spot or hasn't it moved (yet)?

    http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6605/..._29f66a87_orig
    sigpic
  • Berkut
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2011
    • 2216

    #2
    ^That is fairly old pic btw. But yeah, it is still there.

    Comment

    • Y-20 Bacon
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2013
      • 2176

      #3
      those crazy Israelis. look what they are writing

      http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=67903

      Tuesday, July 21, 2015
      Iran expected to buy Russian Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 stealth fighter bombers

      The Iran Deal Will Help Russia Have A Stealth Air Force
      Stephen Bryen July 15, 2015 World News ?
      http://www.business2community.com/wo...force-01277064

      The Iran deal will boost Russias arms industry and make it possible for
      Russia to replace its older aircraft with newer stealth models.

      Thanks to the deal approved by the U.S., the allies and by Russia, the arms
      embargo on Iran will officially be lifted in 5 years. But the rush to sell
      arms to Iran has been on for some time and defense companies from Europe
      along with the Russians, Chinese and North Koreans have been flocking to
      Tehran offering their wares.

      The biggest single need for Iran is fighter and bomber aircraft. There have
      been many reports that iran has already made deals with China and Russia,
      but the big deals are still ahead of us. Thats because until now Iran did
      not have the cash. The nuclear deal is pouring cash into Iran most of which
      will be spent on arms.

      Irans Air Force is dilapidated. It has old F-4 Phantom Jets (64, the number
      in service not known), F-14s (44 out of 80 remain in service) and F-5s (60
      out of 140 operational) from the United States. Iran has 30 MIG-29As of
      which 24 are in service and 24 Mirage F1s that were evacuated from Iraq and
      never returned. Iran has some 20 Sukhoi-24 bombers and some Sukhoi Su-25s
      both of which were formerly Iraqi aircraft. Reportedly Iran sent 7 of the
      Su-25s back to Iran to use against ISIS. Iran also has around 20 Chinese
      F-7M fighters it bought in the 1980s.

      None of the aircraft in Irans inventory can stand up to US made F-15s and
      F-16s let alone deal with the F-22 or the forthcoming F-35. For Iran to
      claim regional power it must upgrade its air force radically. Most of all,
      to stay abreast it needs a genuine stealth fighter bomber.

      That is why the lifting of the arms embargo is fortuitous for Iran since it
      allows the Russians to offer their new Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 stealth fighter
      bomber. The T-50 is a fifth generation air superiority and attack aircraft
      that uses stealth technology, has a supercruise capability and is regarded
      as far more maneuvreable than the F-22 or the F-35. In fact, the PAK FA T-50
      is the Russian Air Force answer to the F-22.

      The F-50 is not yet in production. There are many problems on the Russian
      side, but the biggest one is lack of cash.

      That is why the Russians have been working hard to convince India to be the
      first international customer for the F-50. But the Indians have been taking
      their time, raising objections, criticizing the workmanship of the aircraft
      and have evinced alarm about the reliability of the F-50 engines. In turn
      this has created a major delay in the Russian ability to finance the F-50
      for its own air force. Initial production has been delayed and pushed into
      2016, with many experts suggesting it will even be delayed further.

      Iran, therefore, can bail out the Russian Air Force by helping to finance
      the PAK-T-50 program. Helping to finance based on future deliveries probably
      is consistent with the deal struck by the allies, since it is not quite a
      sale and the aircraft wont immediately be transferred to Iran.

      When the PAK T-50s get to Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Jordan will face a
      formidable problem. The Russian plane has the latest radars and weapons
      packages and its stealth will make it hard to defeat the T-50 with stand off
      weapons. The entire theory of the F-35, for example, is based on the idea of
      knocking the enemy out before the enemy detects the F-35. But if Russias
      stealth system turns out to be good, that advantage is liquidated.

      For the western countries, most arms sales to Iran are likely to be
      electronics and spare parts instead of major systems. Iran will want parts
      for its F-5s and F-4s, perhaps for its F-14s, and may also seek
      improvements on those platforms such as better radars or electronic warfare
      pods. But for sure the big potential benefactor is Russia.

      One other significant impact is that the opening up of arms sales undermines
      the sanctions on Russia put there because of Russias military adventurism
      in the Ukraine. For the most part this deal makes those sanctions largely
      superfluous because, other than the export of its mineral wealth, Russia
      productivity is largely focused on its military industry. That is why the
      Russians are pushing so hard on the Ukraine, because a significant share of
      their military manufacturing is in Ukrainian hands and the Russians want it
      back.

      While Congress will look at the nuclear deal primarily from the point of
      view of its adequacy and enforceability, the fact that the deal will boost
      Russias arms industry and help it rapidly build its Air Forces stealth
      capability is a major strategic concern that should not be swept under the
      table.
      ======================
      Dr. Stephen Bryen is a Washington DC -based leader in both the public and
      private sectors. He served in a senior position on the US Senate Foreign
      Relations Committee, as Deputy Under Secretary of Defense, as the founder
      and first Director of the Defense Technology Security Administration, and as
      the President of Finmeccanica North America, Italy's largest defense and
      high technology company. Dr. Bryen also served under a Congressional
      appointment as a Commissioner on the U.S.-China Security Review Commission.


      Dr. Bryen specializes in security technology. His company Ziklag Systems is
      focused on security solutions for mobile platforms. Dr. Bryen is a prolific
      writer and his LinkedIn profile contains links to papers and articles, as
      well as book contributions, over more than 30

      Comment

      • Flanker_man
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Jan 2000
        • 3677

        #4
        So, the T50 is so badly made that the Indians are complaining .....

        But the Indians have been takingtheir time, raising objections, criticizing the workmanship of the aircraft
        and have evinced alarm about the reliability of the F-50 engines


        .... and yet it is so good that it will wipe the floor with all the opposition....

        When the PAK T-50’s get to Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Jordan will face a formidable problem. The Russian plane has the latest radars and weapons
        packages and its stealth will make it hard to defeat the T-50 with stand off weapons.


        Which is it ???

        Ken
        Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast.
        Flankers (& others) website at :-
        http://flankers.co.uk/

        Comment

        • Y-20 Bacon
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2013
          • 2176

          #5
          Originally posted by Flanker_man View Post
          So, the T50 is so badly made that the Indians are complaining .....

          But the Indians have been takingtheir time, raising objections, criticizing the workmanship of the aircraft
          and have evinced alarm about the reliability of the F-50 engines


          .... and yet it is so good that it will wipe the floor with all the opposition....

          When the PAK T-50s get to Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia and Jordan will face a formidable problem. The Russian plane has the latest radars and weapons
          packages and its stealth will make it hard to defeat the T-50 with stand off weapons.


          Which is it ???

          Ken
          not supporting their claims.
          but the two things you point out are not the same. first is about reliability and quality, the other is about performance.
          you can have an unreliable product that kicks ass
          see F-14, Tiger I tank.

          Comment

          • TR1
            TR1
            http://tiny.cc/tp8kd
            • Oct 2010
            • 9806

            #6
            I particularly enjoy the silly trope that Russia needs foreign money to fund the program and the implication that Indian money is keeping it going.
            Or that somehow an Iranian purchase leads directly to both sukhoi inventing a time machine ( to magically complete all the serial components earlier) and the defense budget somehow increasing massively.

            Poo article is poo.
            sigpic

            Comment

            • mupp
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Mar 2008
              • 267

              #7
              Click image for larger version

Name:	2vs4t5i.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	141.1 KB
ID:	3663162

              Whatever about the article the pic is sexy...

              Edit...ehh I meant the camo scheme on the aircraft not the rather under dressed fella from 300.

              Comment

              • Berkut
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2011
                • 2216

                #8
                Instead of posting ****ty articles, lets stick to post actually info, how about that?

                Согласно последнему графику, Т-50-5Р должен совершить первый полёт 22.08., передача ОКБ 06.09. ОЧК Т-50-7 должны быть переданы в Жуковский до 30.09. Тем временем на основе результатов статиспытаний фюзеляжа Т-50-7 выявлена необходимость в усилении шпангоута №23. Таким образом сроки постройки Т-50-6-2 существенно сдвигаются. Теперь первый полёт должен состояться 5 октября, а передача ОКБ - 28 декабря. Такой большой промежуток между этими датами обусловлен тем, что на самолёт впервые полностью будет нанесено РПП. Т-50-8, соответственно, съезжает на 2016.
                According to the latest schedule, T-50-5R should make the first flight of 22.08., transfer to OKB 06.09. OChK (wing parts) for T-50-7 should be transferred to Zhukovsky by 30.09. Meanwhile, during static testing of T-50-7 fuselage identified the need to strengthen the frame №23. Thus the timing of construction of T-50-6-2 significantly shifted. Now, the first flight will take place on October 5 and the transfer to OKB - 28 December. Such a large gap between these dates is due to the fact that the first plane that will have a fully applied RAM (!). T-50-8, respectively, shifts to 2016.
                Last edited by Berkut; 31st July 2015, 17:21.

                Comment

                • Jō Asakura
                  多聞天
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 1302

                  #9
                  Mmmmmm.....truly mouthwatering, thanks.

                  I wonder if the ОЧК has anything to do with the rumoured adaptive wing. Here's the SSJ's ОЧК:



                  ...anyways, roll on the CNT/fullerene RAM, PMC cowlings, eye popping tolerances and rivet covers.

                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • Berkut
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2011
                    • 2216

                    #10
                    I just really really hope that the RAM paint will look nice. Dik_A has described the one he has seen as "pretty dark".

                    Comment

                    • TomcatViP
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Nov 2011
                      • 6048

                      #11
                      Adaptive wing like the Mig35 (see patent)?

                      Comment

                      • Berkut
                        Senior Member
                        • Nov 2011
                        • 2216

                        #12
                        I got curious where the spar number 23 might be so i looked up the good old structural patent for T-50:



                        http://www.freepatent.ru/images/pate...nt-2462395.pdf

                        Two things to consider;

                        1; The patent is almost certainly for "phase 1" airframe.
                        2; Phase 2 frame has supposedly been redesigned and that is what T-50-7 is testing. So likelyhood that the spar is in the same location is quite slim. None the less i was curious so i looked it up.

                        Comment

                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 6048

                          #13
                          The beefing up of the early airframe with external panel added to the wing skin gave us a pretty good indication that they faced some roll-inertia problem. That it has to be the cause of non-accurate model or some non anticipated weights, we don't know.
                          Anyhow it's not something that will jeopardize the plane.

                          Comment

                          • Jō Asakura
                            多聞天
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 1302

                            #14
                            Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                            Adaptive wing like the Mig35 (see patent)?
                            Yeah, and the MiG-29K/KUB and the Su-33KUB:

                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • Jō Asakura
                              多聞天
                              • Jan 2011
                              • 1302

                              #15
                              Pic taken May 2014, published 27/07/15:

                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              • Freddy
                                Rank 5 Registered User
                                • Apr 2013
                                • 276

                                #16
                                Short Sputnik article. 31/7/2015.
                                Russia and India will continue their co-development of a fifth-generation fighter plane after signing an experimental design contract, India’s defense minister said on Friday.
                                http://sputniknews.com/asia/20150731/1025268050.html

                                Comment

                                • PLA-MKII
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Mar 2005
                                  • 1649

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Jō Asakura View Post
                                  Pic taken May 2014, published 27/07/15:

                                  What an incredibly beautiful paint scheme. Nothing quite as beautiful as this that I've seen in recent times. Most beautiful 5th gen plane I'd vote.

                                  Comment

                                  • GoldenPawn
                                    Rank 5 Registered User
                                    • Feb 2011
                                    • 206

                                    #18
                                    angled tail appart, the raptorsky is not really a Vlo 5th Gen plane, is it?

                                    Comment

                                    • Berkut
                                      Senior Member
                                      • Nov 2011
                                      • 2216

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by GoldenPawn View Post
                                      angled tail appart, the raptorsky is not really a Vlo 5th Gen plane, is it?
                                      Sigh.

                                      Comment

                                      • Lt Anderson
                                        Rank 5 Registered User
                                        • Oct 2013
                                        • 278

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by GoldenPawn View Post
                                        angled tail appart, the raptorsky is not really a Vlo 5th Gen plane, is it?
                                        Yeah-yeah, you're right...


                                        ... Take your pills...

                                        Comment

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