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where is Western air power over Iraq?

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  • sheytanelkebir
    Rank 5 Registered User
    • Feb 2013
    • 783

    #41
    Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
    Hi Sanem, I miss reading your posts on UAVs and UCAVs. You have a view very similar to mine.

    ISIS is not a conventional army but have developed a new form of warfare. Imagine a combination of German maneuvre warfare and the best guerilla tactics the Muslim world has to offer. A good number of German converts to Islam formerly from the German military, even special forces joined them. These and other such men combined a synthesis of western and eastern tactics.

    This isnt anything like Saddam's army. It is nothing like what the world has seen before. They get well dug in, systematically distributed and have everything from jammers to manpads. They booby trap everything.

    How many predator / reaper drones can the US spare? What kind of persistence can they have? How do you differentiate civilians? If you don't, ISIS gets a field day in recruiting. How do you differentiate friend from foe? ISIS often use enemy uniforms, flags, etc. How do you deal with signal jamming?

    ...
    that's actually a very accurate assessment. ISIS is using "manouver warfare" and "swarming" against weakpoints very effectively. In fact these are classic "beduin" style of attack, but using toyotas and long range sniper rifles.

    they use heavily armoured VBIEDs with a brainwashed pakistani as a glorified "fire and forget" guidance kit. it has worked very well for them in the past. But for example last week they desperately tried taking over the Tharthar Lake regulator... and used no less than 8 VBIEDs in that attack... which were all repulsed by a single KORNET launcher and a team of 3 guys. An EC-635 helicopter had enough time to fly in from Samarra and strafe the remaining hapless daesh rats.

    Of course another "strength" of daesh is their modern media savvy PR... something like the above operation by the Iraqi defenders would be "common news" had it been carried out by ISIS... but because it was by Iraqi forces, almost no one knows about it... and of course that's good news for ISIS recruiters since it keeps the pool of low cost trash "humans" to man their VBIEDs coming in...

    Comment

    • PLA-MKII
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2005
      • 1649

      #42
      Ali Khedery on how the US gave up Iraq to Shia and Iran, pretty much on a platter:

      "Ali Khedery is chairman and chief executive of the Dubai-based Dragoman Partners. From 2003 to 2009, he was the longest continuously serving American official in Iraq, acting as a special assistant to five U.S. ambassadors and as a senior adviser to three heads of U.S. Central Command. In 2011, as an executive with Exxon Mobil, he negotiated the companys entry into the Kurdistan Region of Iraq.
      To understand why Iraq is imploding, you must understand Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and why the United States has supported him since 2006.

      I have known Maliki, or Abu Isra, as he is known to people close to him, for more than a decade. I have traveled across three continents with him. I know his family and his inner circle. When Maliki was an obscure member of parliament, I was among the very few Americans in Baghdad who took his phone calls. In 2006, I helped introduce him to the U.S. ambassador, recommending him as a promising option for prime minister. In 2008, I organized his medevac when he fell ill, and I accompanied him for treatment in London, spending 18 hours a day with him at Wellington Hospital. In 2009, I lobbied skeptical regional royals to support Malikis government.

      By 2010, however, I was urging the vice president of the United States and the White House senior staff to withdraw their support for Maliki. I had come to realize that if he remained in office, he would create a divisive, despotic and sectarian government that would rip the country apart and devastate American interests.

      America stuck by Maliki. As a result, we now face strategic defeat in Iraq and perhaps in the broader Middle East...."
      Read more here:
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...9f1_story.html

      PS: always fact check anything a Shiite tells you, they have something called "taqiya" which basically legalizes lying for them. A good part of what they say is verifyably false with a few minutes of google search.

      Comment

      • sheytanelkebir
        Rank 5 Registered User
        • Feb 2013
        • 783

        #43
        What are you talking about? I am not a Shiite or even a Shia... and I'm definitely not a "dalit in denial trying to please the arabs"

        Ali Khederi works for Khamis Al Khanjar and the Qataris. Perhaps if you knew arabic you'd understand.

        If someone gave him a better offer I'm sure he'd go for it, even Iran. But for now He's simply one of the army of lobbyists now in the pay of the GCC "lobby" and their happy go lucky "degenerate wahabi terrorists". Its been his job for the last 5 years and you're welcome to look up all his stuff... (in english)... or if you want try arabic.
        Last edited by sheytanelkebir; 8th June 2015, 10:49.

        Comment

        • swerve
          Rank 5 Registered User
          • Jun 2005
          • 13610

          #44
          BTW, I've just read a report (a couple of weeks old) that the USA was about to ship 1000 AT4 (Swedish) anti-armour weapons to Iraq. That's the sort of thing that should be in just about every squad, not just platoon, in any army.
          Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
          Justinian

          Comment

          • swerve
            Rank 5 Registered User
            • Jun 2005
            • 13610

            #45
            Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
            Hi Sanem, I miss reading your posts on UAVs and UCAVs. You have a view very similar to mine.

            ISIS is not a conventional army but have developed a new form of warfare.
            ...
            It's not a new form of warfare.
            Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
            Justinian

            Comment

            • sheytanelkebir
              Rank 5 Registered User
              • Feb 2013
              • 783

              #46
              Originally posted by swerve View Post
              BTW, I've just read a report (a couple of weeks old) that the USA was about to ship 1000 AT4 (Swedish) anti-armour weapons to Iraq. That's the sort of thing that should be in just about every squad, not just platoon, in any army.
              1000 has arrived and another 1000 are arriving in the next few weeks.

              Also Russia has shipped some RPG-29 and RPG-32s.

              France said they'll ship some MILANs, but this is not 100% certain.

              Thing is. The war with ISIS... Iraqis have literally several thousand "point defence" areas that are potential targets and there's no clear lie of defence at the contact points. There's no "no mans land" separating Iraqi positions from marauding ISIS units that swarm at a point of their choosing then disappear. Very much in the vein of the 18th and 19th century war by the wahabis in that very region....

              What needs to happen "at the most basic level" are the following:
              1- create clear "no mans land" where all vehicles are deemed enemy and open for destruction. This improves the ROE situation for Iraqi and coallition aircraft and artillery in engaging marauders "freely"
              2- Stop all mobile phone signals and work on jamming SATCOM signals in all "hostile held" territory
              3- Improve the woeful PR and media campaign of the Iraqi side. I mean in the last week the Iraqis took all of Baiji city and environs as well as Al Garma in Anbar and held of a mass ISIS attack on Tharthar and decisively defeated them,... but I doubt if ANYONE has really heard much about it. Conversely If the Iraqis lose 4x Humvees and a couple of M113s to an ambush next week however the world media would be up in arms screaming "the useless cowardly Iraqis gave dozens of abrams tanks to ISIS and ran away!".

              Those three "basic" steps would improve the situation a hundred fold IMHO, including vis a vis the free use of airpower.
              Last edited by sheytanelkebir; 9th June 2015, 15:39.

              Comment

              • PLA-MKII
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2005
                • 1649

                #47
                Originally posted by swerve View Post
                It's not a new form of warfare.
                Well sir, that is debatable both ways, but we would drag the thread in the wrong direction if we debated it here...

                Comment

                • Y-20 Bacon
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2013
                  • 2176

                  #48
                  Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                  Ali Khedery on how the US gave up Iraq to Shia and Iran, pretty much on a platter:

                  "Ali Khedery is chairman and chief executive of the Dubai-based Dragoman Partners. From 2003 to 2009, he was the longest continuously serving American official in Iraq, acting as a special assistant to five U.S. ambassadors and as a senior adviser to three heads of U.S. Central Command. In 2011, as an executive with Exxon Mobil, he negotiated the company’s entry into the Kurdistan Region of Iraq.
                  To understand why Iraq is imploding, you must understand Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki — and why the United States has supported him since 2006.

                  I have known Maliki, or Abu Isra, as he is known to people close to him, for more than a decade. I have traveled across three continents with him. I know his family and his inner circle. When Maliki was an obscure member of parliament, I was among the very few Americans in Baghdad who took his phone calls. In 2006, I helped introduce him to the U.S. ambassador, recommending him as a promising option for prime minister. In 2008, I organized his medevac when he fell ill, and I accompanied him for treatment in London, spending 18 hours a day with him at Wellington Hospital. In 2009, I lobbied skeptical regional royals to support Maliki’s government.

                  By 2010, however, I was urging the vice president of the United States and the White House senior staff to withdraw their support for Maliki. I had come to realize that if he remained in office, he would create a divisive, despotic and sectarian government that would rip the country apart and devastate American interests.

                  America stuck by Maliki. As a result, we now face strategic defeat in Iraq and perhaps in the broader Middle East...."
                  Read more here:
                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...9f1_story.html

                  PS: always fact check anything a Shiite tells you, they have something called "taqiya" which basically legalizes lying for them. A good part of what they say is verifyably false with a few minutes of google search.
                  did you also suggest Iraq should buy ugpraded J-8s too?

                  Comment

                  • Multirole
                    Rank 5 Registered User
                    • Jan 2000
                    • 903

                    #49
                    80% of Iraqis no longer feel they are Iraqis first and foremost. If we accept Iraq is de facto three countries now we have to give the Sunnis some sort of political alternative to ISIS, one that the Sunnis are willing to fight for.
                    pb::

                    Comment

                    • swerve
                      Rank 5 Registered User
                      • Jun 2005
                      • 13610

                      #50
                      Originally posted by PLA-MKII View Post
                      Well sir, that is debatable both ways, but we would drag the thread in the wrong direction if we debated it here...
                      I agree, it's best not to go that way.
                      Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                      Justinian

                      Comment

                      • Sanem
                        Rank 5 Registered User
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 590

                        #51
                        with Russia shaping to get involved, it will be interesting to see if they can make a dent in IS where the West failed

                        Comment

                        • TomcatViP
                          Rank 5 Registered User
                          • Nov 2011
                          • 6112

                          #52
                          Failed?

                          Has IS kept expending since the coalition took over air-Op over local forces? No.
                          It's not because nobody want to get its feet muddied (again) that this is a sign of failure. For the "West", there are no interests putting boots on the ground without a political solution.
                          The failure lies here so far: local actors clinching to an inherited old policy.

                          Comment

                          • mrmalaya
                            Generation 4.75+++
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 4664

                            #53
                            Yes, the following airdropped psyops pamphlet describes the situation well:

                            Click image for larger version

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                            The meat grinder

                            But the fact is, the ground is were the progress needs to be.

                            Comment

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