Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

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Eurofighter pitching to Indonesia:

A final assembly facility for the world’s most versatile and reliable fast-jet fighter could be built in Indonesia it has been re-confirmed this week - if the Nation chooses to opt for the Eurofighter Typhoon and the chance to develop its own indigenous capability.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/162824/eurofighter-offer-promises-jobs%2C-technology-to-indonesia.html

If India does not look ready to absorb Rafale TOT, does Indonesia look ready to absorb Typhoon TOT?

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A final assembly facility for the world’s most versatile and reliable fast-jet fighter could be built in Indonesia

er, Eurofighter consortium is selling Rafales now? coool! :D

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Even if Indonesia wants to go down the domestic assembly/workshare route, I don't see how Typhoon has any prospects at all against a similar offer from SAAB. Typhoon would be more expensive across the board, duplicate the weight class of KF-X, and have far more limited export prospects throughout the rest of South-East Asia.

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Eurofighter pitching to Indonesia:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/162824/eurofighter-offer-promises-jobs%2C-technology-to-indonesia.html

If India does not look ready to absorb Rafale TOT, does Indonesia look ready to absorb Typhoon TOT?

Its just an assembly line (probably for SKD kits at that). Don't read too much into it. The F-35's ToT isn't being shared with anyone but that hasn't stopped the FACO lines from being created in Italy and Japan. IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.

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er, Eurofighter consortium is selling Rafales now? coool! :D

Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.

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Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.

As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...

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Eurofighter tried to copy Dassault's marketing, but wound up advertising the "Omnishambles Fighter". :o

(I kid, I kid. F-35 is the Omnishambles Fighter, obviously.)

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As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...

it certainly is (what some seem to forget), but if I was trying to sell the Typhoon on today's market, I wouldn't use "most versatile" argument to depict it. I'm sure they can find a more credible one... (considering what they are paid to do their job, they better be able to do it)

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... IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.

Eventually cancelled because the Saudi partner never got round to setting up the assembly plant, hiring workers, etc., & BAE gave up & started assembling the kits it'd been making & storing . . .

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As if any company, including your beloved Dassault is going to advertise its product as the second, third... best of its kind. That's called marketing...

That must be cultural then , sounds to me more like a low grade commercial advertisement a bit like "seen of TV", but I guess one could see that as marketing. Not too sure how effective it is tough in the market space.

I effectively do not recall Dassault ever trumpeting its products to be second best ;), or anything less for that matter. But more seriously I do not think I ever came across any Dassault 's advertisement of comparable nature.

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it certainly is (what some seem to forget), but if I was trying to sell the Typhoon on today's market, I wouldn't use "most versatile" argument to depict it. I'm sure they can find a more credible one... (considering what they are paid to do their job, they better be able to do it)

Credibility is nothing that marketing departments or representatives appear to really care about. It's always going to be the best in the advertisers, in one form or another. In the current situation its difficult anyway. The aircraft is good and offers a great potential, but exploiting it requires investments which are often coming slowly. At the same time the price is to high for most and the competition is hard.

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That must be cultural then , sounds to me more like a low grade commercial advertisement a bit like "seen of TV", but I guess one could see that as marketing. Not too sure how effective it is tough in the market space.

I effectively do not recall Dassault ever trumpeting its products to be second best ;), or anything less for that matter. But more seriously I do not think I ever came across any Dassault 's advertisement of comparable nature.

If claiming "to be a generation ahead of the competition" isn't a comparable exaggeration, I don't know what is. But as said that's the business of those people. 99% of the readers/watchers won't know whether it reflects reality or not and those who know take it for what it is and won't decide for or against the product based on marketing claims like these.

As such it's not seriously worth to even discuss this and for this reason the debatte ends here, for me at least.

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Its just an assembly line (probably for SKD kits at that). Don't read too much into it. The F-35's ToT isn't being shared with anyone but that hasn't stopped the FACO lines from being created in Italy and Japan. IIRC even the Saudi EF deal originally included local license assembly.

The export director makes it sound like a lot more than an assembly line:

“Transferring technology is not a problem for us,” said Parker, “It is part of our day-job. What excites me is the potential I see in Indonesia for developing huge levels of indigenous capability around this opportunity..."

but then I suppose that is really just marketing speak for "We will help you set up assembly processes".

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As such it's not seriously worth to even discuss this and for this reason the debatte ends here, for me at least.

True, my apologies to have poluted the thread. Still interesting to understand how marketing affect the high end combat airplane market space, where decision are primarily made by governememental experts

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The details are created at the lowest level, results reported to the next higher instance where information are consolidated and reported to the next higher instance and so forth. The higher infoemation flows the more compressed it gets and when arriving at top level it might be as simple as a green or red field on a chart. The other way round decisions made by top level will be routed down to the lowest level where once again solutions are worked out, before results of its implementation are reported back upwards. I don't think that such marketing has a significant impact on the decision making as there is simply to much money involved . An exception might be some dumb dictators who may make to decisions based on gut feelings overruling common sense.

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12 years 1 month

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The details are created at the lowest level, results reported to the next higher instance where information are consolidated and reported to the next higher instance and so forth. The higher infoemation flows the more compressed it gets and when arriving at top level it might be as simple as a green or red field on a chart. The other way round decisions made by top level will be routed down to the lowest level where once again solutions are worked out, before results of its implementation are reported back upwards. I don't think that such marketing has a significant impact on the decision making as there is simply to much money involved . An exception might be some dumb dictators who may make to decisions based on gut feelings overruling common sense.

So marketing is primarily turned inward toward local tax payers and government electors , promoting the company competence for attracting investments,rather than outward toward customers to sell the products.

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In this field where so much money is involved the clueless politicians will delegate the evaluation of products and services to those who know what's relevant and as such to those who don't take the marketing ploy as gospel. Arguably some strong words from the seller may serve as a first attention getter. There might nuances and differences from country to country and often enough political and economical considerations will eventually override anything else.

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Glad to see I am not the only one noticing the rhetoric of EF consortium, back to old habits ...second best...etc but hey those French are so arrogant ,you know !.

Err.. when was the Damocles finally integrated on the Rafale and when did the company start marketing it as the world's only 'omni-role' fighter? No reason for EF not to market a configuration that they'll achieve only by 2018.

Eurofighter tried to copy Dassault's marketing, but wound up advertising the "Omnishambles Fighter". :o

(I kid, I kid. F-35 is the Omnishambles Fighter, obviously.)


Hmm.. I was kind of hoping LM would be nasty about it and market the F-35 as a 'serial-killer-of-Eurocanards'. Applies both to air combat and the export market. :very_drunk:

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http://www.eurofighter.com/news-and-events/2015/02/eurofighter-typhoon-powers-forward-with-new-enhancement-contract

Eurofighter has today released details of a new capability contract valued at EUROS 200 million delivering a suite of new enhancements to the Eurofighter Typhoon.

As well as introducing a number of upgrades to the Eurofighter’s mission and maintenance systems, the contract, known as Phase 3 Capability Enhancement, will equip the Eurofighter Typhoon to deploy multiple precision-guided air-to-surface weapons at fast-moving targets with low-collateral damage. It further confirms the aircraft’s full multi-role, swing-role capability.

Details of the new enhancements were revealed at the IDEX defence exhibition in Abu Dhabi, today, Sunday 22nd February 2015, at a contract signing in the presence of Philip Dunne, UK Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, accompanied by Alberto Gutierrez, CEO of Eurofighter and Air-Vice Marshal Graham Farnell and representatives from the other Eurofighter customer nations: for Germany, General Erhard Bὔhler, Director Defence Plans & Policy; representing Italy, Lieutenant General Enzo Stefanini; and for Spain, Ministry of Defence, Secretary of State, Pedro Arguelles, all showing their support for this essential capability.

Alberto Gutierrez, the CEO of Eurofighter, said: “This capability upgrade gives the Eurofighter Typhoon unrivalled full multi-role and swing-role capability. Although the prime focus is the introduction of the Brimstone 2 missile required by the UK RAF, P3E enhances the capabilities of the Storm Shadow long-range strike missile, the Meteor, Paveway IV and ASRAAM weapons, as well as introducing modifications to further improve the aircraft’s already impressive availability. Support for the contract will come from all four core nations and the enhancement package will benefit all who use it.”

Air Vice-Marshal, Graham Farnell, the General Manager of NETMA (NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency), who signed the contract on behalf of the core customer nations, said: “Over the last 18 months the Eurofighter Typhoon community has enjoyed a significant acceleration to the weapon system capability enhancement programme and I am pleased to say we have been able to agree a number of major contracts which really drive the weapon system’s contribution to air power.”

He said: “The agreement of the P3E contract is further evidence that this is a Programme which keeps on delivering. As the hugely successful Panavia Tornado moves towards the last decade of its life cycle, it is highly re-assuring to know that the mantle will be picked up by the Eurofighter Typhoon. Brimstone 2 capability is both a unique and welcome addition to the capability portfolio, and whilst it is just a part of the P3E story, Brimstone represents an extremely important capability to have.”

The four nation contract between the UK, Italy, Germany and Spain will form the basis for the next major Eurofighter enhancement, the Phase 4 Capability Enhancement contract, now in its ‘definition phase’. This will lay the foundation for the Nations’ Combat Air capability requirements into the next decade.

The Phase 3 Enhancement contract is scheduled for delivery in 2017. All four core nations will work on flight control and avionics and the contract will centre round a scheduled programme of weapon testing, the development and testing of flight control systems, and finally store clearing and store release testing. The initial fit for the Brimstone 2 missiles on the Eurofighter will see two launchers fitted to the outboard pylons of the Eurofighter each carrying three Brimstone 2 missiles.

The full swing-role, multi-role weapons compliment on the Eurofighter could now include a mix of: six Brimstone 2 missiles; up to six Paveway IV bombs, two long-range Storm Shadow missiles, four Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and either two IRIS-T or two ASRAAM heat-seeking missiles.

This weapons package, combined with the high-kinetic performance and super cruise capability of the platform and AESA radar now being integrated onto the platform, confirms Eurofighter as the world’s most versatile fast-jet fighter.

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True, my apologies to have poluted the thread. Still interesting to understand how marketing affect the high end combat airplane market space, where decision are primarily made by governememental experts

One of my experiences with such governmental expert from few years ago - he has sworn they have decided to pick an Agusta A109 for their application mainly because it was "proven Swiss-quality". :) In the ca fifteen minutes with him I was completely unable to persuade him that the bird was actually Italian-made. :D