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Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

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    Originally posted by Yama View Post
    When they bolt all that stuff to Gripen, I don't think it's going to be that cheap anymore.
    Seems obvious that F/A-18E/F is the cheapest, but probably isn't in production anymore in 2022...
    No, in this particular case we have hard data, we have the official numbers for Brasil Gripen acquisition and we have the FMS letter describing Boeing offer in that same competition, its not even close, the Swedish offer was vastly cheaper.
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      A great cheer for the RAF, they are going to field, not five, not seven, but eight front line Phoon sqns!
      The entire discussion of how many T1's would remain in service and for how long has ended, all of them and untill the end of their airframe lives.
      Good news.
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        Originally posted by Sintra View Post
        No, in this particular case we have hard data, we have the official numbers for Brasil Gripen acquisition and we have the FMS letter describing Boeing offer in that same competition, its not even close, the Swedish offer was vastly cheaper.
        It remains to be seen:
        . - a/ if the E will ever fly to its expectations
        . - b/ if all this will still generate a bit of profits for SAAB. It's not like this company has not been at the barrel end of its own grandiloquent policies...


        What is for sure is that the SH was offered cheaper than the Typhoon and had better overall score in performances. Now with a line prolonged further in time and with no doubt a slight to moderate increase in production output, Boeing will have a greater margin to negotiate.

        I wish Finish will buy some 35B at least.
        Last edited by TomcatViP; 19th November 2016, 21:15.

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          Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
          It remains to be seen:
          . - a/ if the E will ever fly to its expectations
          . - b/ if all this will still generate a bit of profits for SAAB. It's not like this company has not been at the barrel end of its own grandiloquent policies...
          Its "own grandiloquent policies" are backed up by fixed cost contracts and decent kit since the Lansen.
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            Originally posted by Sintra View Post
            No, in this particular case we have hard data, we have the official numbers for Brasil Gripen acquisition and we have the FMS letter describing Boeing offer in that same competition, its not even close, the Swedish offer was vastly cheaper.
            We don't though. At best we know what the Brazilian state is paying Saab, with the (unknown) balance going to Embraer. That's the only way to explain an off-the-shelf order from Switzerland costing as much as (or more than) a local assembly/production deal with Brazil.

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              Originally posted by Sintra View Post
              Its "own grandiloquent policies" are backed up by fixed cost contracts and decent kit since the Lansen.
              Not since the Tunnan?
              Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
              Justinian

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                Saab use to produce the best Eu cars and sell them all over the world (sorry to the UK reader). Management of alliances and wishful thinking closed the plants down at an astonishing pace.

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                  Maybe we should get back to Typhoon?

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                    Originally posted by mrmalaya View Post
                    Maybe we should get back to Typhoon?
                    OK, how about the recent announcement of the intention to get the RAF to 8 frontline Typhoon squadrons.

                    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/roya...hoon-squadron/

                    Add them to 29 Sqn (the OCU), plus 41 TES, plus 1435 Flt in the Falklands, and the disbanded 17 Sqn (OEU), that comes to 12 RAF Typhoon units that will have operated the jet.
                    HQ2 out

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                      Originally posted by Vnomad View Post
                      We don't though. At best we know what the Brazilian state is paying Saab, with the (unknown) balance going to Embraer. That's the only way to explain an off-the-shelf order from Switzerland costing as much as (or more than) a local assembly/production deal with Brazil.
                      No.
                      The main contractor is SAAB who sub contracts Embraer, AKAER, etc.
                      The Switzerland deal has nothing to do with it, we dont know the kind of suport that the Schweizer Luftwaffe asked, and for how long. And yes, the Gripen Brasilian contract was described in detail by the Brasilian MOD at the time, and yes, i am a Portuguese speaking native.
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                        Originally posted by swerve View Post
                        Not since the Tunnan?
                        Yep, you are right
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                          Originally posted by TomcatViP View Post
                          Saab use to produce the best Eu cars and sell them all over the world (sorry to the UK reader). Management of alliances and wishful thinking closed the plants down at an astonishing pace.
                          And thats relevant for this discussion in what way?
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                            Originally posted by HaveQuick2 View Post
                            OK, how about the recent announcement of the intention to get the RAF to 8 frontline Typhoon squadrons.

                            https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/roya...hoon-squadron/

                            Add them to 29 Sqn (the OCU), plus 41 TES, plus 1435 Flt in the Falklands, and the disbanded 17 Sqn (OEU), that comes to 12 RAF Typhoon units that will have operated the jet.
                            Those are some wonderful news, this throws the entire T1 Phoon force into the 2030s.
                            I imagine we are going to see a two tier RAAF Phoon force, a slightly updated T1 fleet (enough to be able to use the MBDA Meteor, the shell life of the RAF AIM120s should end somewhere in the next decade?) used mainly for training and QRA and a T2/T3 with the AESA and the rest of the upgrades.
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                              Since all users are keeping their T1 airframes, is there anything going on regarding a MLU ?
                              Requirenments are pretty similar, strictly a2a for QRA duties @ the lowest possible costs.

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                                Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                                No.
                                The main contractor is SAAB who sub contracts Embraer, AKAER, etc.
                                The Switzerland deal has nothing to do with it, we dont know the kind of suport that the Schweizer Luftwaffe asked, and for how long. And yes, the Gripen Brasilian contract was described in detail by the Brasilian MOD at the time, and yes, i am a Portuguese speaking native.
                                Whatever support the Swiss asked for cannot have been more than what would go into a local production line along with a very generous financing arrangement. For that matter, we don't know that the support terms offered by Boeing were identical or even similar to the (much more complicated) deal hashed out with the Swedes.

                                Also keep in mind that the DSCA's FMS release quotes the maximum possible value of the contract. The actual figure may be significantly lower.

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                                  Originally posted by Aurel View Post
                                  Since all users are keeping their T1 airframes, is there anything going on regarding a MLU ?
                                  Requirenments are pretty similar, strictly a2a for QRA duties @ the lowest possible costs.
                                  T1 isn't strictly A2A. The Litening pod, Paveway II & EPW II were declared operation in 2008 - that's eight years ago.

                                  But AFAIK the plan is to retain T1 as dedicated A2A aircraft, not updating the A2G capability when old weapons go out of service.
                                  Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                  Justinian

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                                    Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                                    Yep, you are right
                                    It was astonishing that the Swedes had their own (albeit with a British engine) operational swept-wing jet fighter in service in 1950, four years before the RAF got the Swift - which was rubbish.
                                    Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                                    Justinian

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                                      Is the air interdiction load out actually possible? Tanks and storm shadow I got this image from target lock
                                      http://www.targetlock.org.uk/typhoon/weapons.html
                                      For some reason I can't get the picture to paste on my phone so here is the link.
                                      http://www.targetlock.org.uk/typhoon/typhoon-airint.gif
                                      Basically it's 3 tanks and 2 storm shadow.
                                      I have a vague memory of typhoon having an extra 2 hard points behind the first stations on the wing. Basically where the chaff bumps are. I'm I totally wrong here or thinking of another aircraft. It looks like a bit of empty space when smaller weapons are carried. If they would actually be needed with the other points is another matter

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                                        Originally posted by F35b View Post
                                        Is the air interdiction load out actually possible? Tanks and storm shadow I got this image from target lock
                                        http://www.targetlock.org.uk/typhoon/weapons.html
                                        For some reason I can't get the picture to paste on my phone so here is the link.
                                        http://www.targetlock.org.uk/typhoon/typhoon-airint.gif
                                        Basically it's 3 tanks and 2 storm shadow.
                                        I have a vague memory of typhoon having an extra 2 hard points behind the first stations on the wing. Basically where the chaff bumps are. I'm I totally wrong here or thinking of another aircraft. It looks like a bit of empty space when smaller weapons are carried. If they would actually be needed with the other points is another matter
                                        Very, very, very old image. Both the Storm Shadow and the Taurus are being integrated in the midle pylon, the one with the wet point.
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                                          Originally posted by Sintra View Post
                                          Very, very, very old image. Both the Storm Shadow and the Taurus are being integrated in the midle pylon, the one with the wet point.
                                          Yes. inner wing point was not usable, the missile being too forward causing huge separation issues.

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