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Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

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    #81
    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    I have never claimed the RBE2-AA had changed back-end.
    Pffft, sure you did, that's what you now argued about forever and a day.
    http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...99#post2220399

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    Still doesn't say a thing about Captor-E having any more capabilities than RBE2-AA. Both have their upgrade path defined and they are technologically on the same level.
    It says it has RF cyberwarfare and both active and passive detection/tracking capabilities, which is more than can be said for RBE2-AA. Aside from that, it has 50% more modules, which itself is good for a 36% increase in detection and targeting range.

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    I read very good. And another dozen of people here read the same. The only fool reading something else is yourself.
    Go figure.

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    And? How exactly is that related to our topic?
    Your comment wasn't exactly related either, just something that put you in bad company, e.g. Saddam Hussein.

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    Of course, they surely spend their time testing new hardware in the least challenging missions possible, just to please you.
    Not every test pushes the absolute limit in terms of simulating the greatest imaginable enemy threat. Some training scenarios in the last decade have had fighters mimicking 3rd generation fighter enemies. So in that particular case, you get left with a situation where a mechanically scanned radar, a PESA, an AESA, or even an IRST system ticks the box.

    Originally posted by MSphere View Post
    Who told you that I was Rafale man?
    It's plain to see. The immediate belief in the Rafale's whole electronic stealth BS over in the F-35 thread. I see people willing to believe any Rafale hocus-pocus claim ever made, like the recent BS about the AESA RBE2 having a >100% increase in range over the PESA, putting it on par with an APG-77 based on RBE2 PESA range claims. Yeah, that's right, the RBE2-AA is apparently 8 times more efficient than an APG-77 relative to its size. Pffft.

    Comment


      #82
      Originally posted by Aurel View Post
      I'm a bit surprised noone really took notice of this:
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]237197[/ATTACH]

      Swapping the Stormshadows with fuel tanks and this looks like a solid loadout. Pretty much what the Tornadoes carried in Libya times 2 plus Meteors. Now the question is: just a mockup or really in development ?
      Seems to all be included in this new update. Of course the CFTs will be needed to make full use of the Storm Shadow. Interestingly the Storm Shadow MLU is due to introduce a 2-way datalink and anti-ship capability too. Very useful upgrades, concentrate on the upgrades and the bids will win themselves, shame that wasn't the philosophy from the start.

      http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...67#post2219567

      Comment


        #83
        Originally posted by Scorpion82 View Post
        There is quite alot that's being said by "sources". One only needs to think about such a claim and its implications. This one is definitely a mere.
        There are obviously some flight conditions where stabilising the aircraft will take precedence, for obvious reasons, but it's potentially possible heading into a BVR encounter in stable flight. Heh, don't know.

        Comment


          #84
          Originally posted by Aurel View Post
          I'm a bit surprised noone really took notice of this:
          [ATTACH=CONFIG]237197[/ATTACH]

          Swapping the Stormshadows with fuel tanks and this looks like a solid loadout. Pretty much what the Tornadoes carried in Libya times 2 plus Meteors. Now the question is: just a mockup or really in development ?
          I'm always sceptical of these mock ups. That said if you take fuel instead of cruise missiles then that is plenty of useful hardware.

          If you compare to this layout we are now looking at more precision strike than ever
          Click image for larger version

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          Last edited by mrmalaya; 2nd May 2015, 11:48.

          Comment


            #85
            Swap the Paveway IVs for another 3 Brimstones and you're looking at taking out a dozen tanks, IFVs, APCs, artillery pieces or SAM sites from up to 60km away in a single mission. It's a moderately effective SEAD/DEAD package as well as a precision strike package. SPEAR will be another game changer. I think that the next few years will see the Typhoon undergo massive development, as the Tornado is phased out:

            Already funded for integration in P3E
            CFTs;
            Storm Shadow MLU (anti-ship capability);
            Brimstone II, anti-tank and DEAD capability, up to 18;
            Paveway IV dual racks, up to 12 in total;
            ASRAAM upgrade (unspecified, based on CAMM?);
            Meteor;
            DASS upgrade;
            Striker II helmet;
            AESA radar (Captor-E).


            Soon after 2018 - funded for development?
            SPEAR quad racks.
            Last edited by lukos; 2nd May 2015, 12:50.

            Comment


              #86
              It's looking like Typhoon will only have 4 hard points able to carry Brimstone though.

              Comment


                #87
                Maybe, maybe not. There's no reason why 6 couldn't be used with CFTs, although 12 missiles is probably more than enough.

                Comment


                  #88
                  Don't ask me why, although it's probably down to money. All the sources mentioning numbers that I have seen are consistently saying 12.

                  Comment


                    #89
                    6 Brimstone and 4 PW IV is exactly twice what the Tornadoes carried over Libya. Plus the option for 4 BVR missiles. That's good enough for me. Can someone identify the dual carrier ? Couldn't find any detailed info on it.

                    Comment


                      #90
                      I think that's a new enhancement in P3E too. There's also a common quad rack in development for the F-35 and Typhoon.

                      Comment


                        #91
                        Originally posted by lukos View Post
                        Already funded for integration in P3E
                        CFTs;
                        Storm Shadow MLU (anti-ship capability);
                        Brimstone II, anti-tank and DEAD capability, up to 18;
                        Paveway IV dual racks, up to 12 in total;
                        ASRAAM upgrade (unspecified, based on CAMM?);
                        Meteor;
                        DASS upgrade;
                        Striker II helmet;
                        AESA radar (Captor-E).
                        Do you have a source?

                        The twin rack surely look like a mock-up to me. And it isn't a new proposal, anyone remember this one:
                        Click image for larger version

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                        How can less be more? It's impossible. More is more.
                        Yngwie Malmsteen

                        Comment


                          #92
                          Originally posted by lukos View Post
                          Pffft, sure you did, that's what you now argued about forever and a day.
                          http://forum.keypublishing.com/showt...99#post2220399
                          Did I? Show me where...

                          Originally posted by lukos View Post
                          It says it has RF cyberwarfare and both active and passive detection/tracking capabilities, which is more than can be said for RBE2-AA.
                          Nowhere does it say it already has them..

                          Originally posted by lukos View Post
                          Your comment wasn't exactly related either, just something that put you in bad company, e.g. Saddam Hussein.
                          Basement level of argumentation has just found its new definition..

                          Originally posted by lukos View Post
                          Not every test pushes the absolute limit in terms of simulating the greatest imaginable enemy threat. Some training scenarios in the last decade have had fighters mimicking 3rd generation fighter enemies. So in that particular case, you get left with a situation where a mechanically scanned radar, a PESA, an AESA, or even an IRST system ticks the box.
                          In other words: NAVY took the new radar, put it under some ridiculously useless test conditions so that they can claim AESA sucks?

                          Originally posted by lukos View Post
                          It's plain to see. The immediate belief in the Rafale's whole electronic stealth BS over in the F-35 thread. I see people willing to believe any Rafale hocus-pocus claim ever made, like the recent BS about the AESA RBE2 having a >100% increase in range over the PESA, putting it on par with an APG-77 based on RBE2 PESA range claims. Yeah, that's right, the RBE2-AA is apparently 8 times more efficient than an APG-77 relative to its size. Pffft.
                          I can only repeat myself - show me where I have ever claimed any of these... Good luck searching..
                          Last edited by MSphere; 3rd May 2015, 00:32.

                          Comment


                            #93
                            Originally posted by lukos View Post
                            Swap the Paveway IVs for another 3 Brimstones and you're looking at taking out a dozen tanks, IFVs, APCs, artillery pieces or SAM sites from up to 60km away in a single mission. It's a moderately effective SEAD/DEAD package as well as a precision strike package. SPEAR will be another game changer. I think that the next few years will see the Typhoon undergo massive development, as the Tornado is phased out:

                            Already funded for integration in P3E
                            CFTs;
                            Storm Shadow MLU (anti-ship capability);
                            Brimstone II, anti-tank and DEAD capability, up to 18;
                            Paveway IV dual racks, up to 12 in total;
                            ASRAAM upgrade (unspecified, based on CAMM?);
                            Meteor;
                            DASS upgrade;
                            Striker II helmet;
                            AESA radar (Captor-E).


                            Soon after 2018 - funded for development?
                            SPEAR quad racks.
                            Lukos stop talking nonsense! The only not weapon related changes as part of P3E are avionics reliability improvements.
                            Captor-E is funded under a separate contract, Striker II at best a BC and don't expect too much from the number of weapons the aircraft will be cleared to carry!

                            Furthermore changing/improving the integration of weapons does not necessarily entail changes to the weapons itself.

                            Comment


                              #94
                              Originally posted by Scorpion82 View Post
                              Lukos stop talking nonsense! The only not weapon related changes as part of P3E are avionics reliability improvements.
                              Captor-E is funded under a separate contract, Striker II at best a BC and don't expect too much from the number of weapons the aircraft will be cleared to carry!

                              Furthermore changing/improving the integration of weapons does not necessarily entail changes to the weapons itself.
                              Sorry Scorpion, that was what I seemed to make of this.

                              http://www.eurofighter.com/news-and-...ement-contract
                              Last edited by lukos; 3rd May 2015, 08:57.

                              Comment


                                #95
                                Originally posted by eagle View Post
                                Do you have a source?
                                Recent tweet. Makes sense given that a multiple store is being added for Brimstone anyway.

                                Comment


                                  #96
                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  Did I? Show me where...
                                  I showed you where in the last post. You clearly began arguing with someone who stated that.

                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  Nowhere does it say it already has them..
                                  Seems crystal clear to me. Captor-E will provide them.

                                  http://www.armada.ch/aircraft-self-p...ophistication/

                                  The latest support to self-protection will however originate from the new aesa radar which is to replace the Captor system, providing in a spiralled programme with passive, active and cyberwarfare RF capabilities.
                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  Basement level of argumentation has just found its new definition..
                                  The dictionary has a picture of your name and avatar.

                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  In other words: NAVY took the new radar, put it under some ridiculously useless test conditions so that they can claim AESA sucks?
                                  Maybe they tested it on the sort of mission they actually tend to execute these days, rather than WWIII. Not every test is WWIII-based.

                                  Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                                  I can only repeat myself - show me where I have ever claimed any of these... Good luck searching..
                                  Go look on the Rafale thread at the sort of crap being spouted.

                                  Comment


                                    #97
                                    Just reading the eurofighter pr, I think it remains to be seen what real weapons are going to be hung from the real life aircraft. The list:

                                    The Phase 3 Enhancement contract is scheduled for delivery in 2017. All four core nations will work on flight control and avionics and the contract will centre round a scheduled programme of weapon testing, the development and testing of flight control systems, and finally store clearing and store release testing. The initial fit for the Brimstone 2 missiles on the Eurofighter will see two launchers fitted to the outboard pylons of the Eurofighter each carrying three Brimstone 2 missiles.

                                    "The full swing-role, multi-role weapons compliment on the Eurofighter could now include a mix of: six Brimstone 2 missiles; up to six Paveway IV bombs, two long-range Storm Shadow missiles, four Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missiles and either two IRIS-T or two ASRAAM heat-seeking missiles."

                                    .....doesnt include fuel tanks so cannot be seen as a realistic weapon carriage configuration.

                                    Comment


                                      #98
                                      I know that all Tranche 3 aircraft have provisions for CFTs.

                                      Comment


                                        #99
                                        Yes I agree. The RAF however are not making much noise about that capability (possibly because of internal politics pre SDSR) and no one else is bothered to my knowledge.

                                        Storm shadow needs CFT however.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by mrmalaya View Post
                                          Yes I agree. The RAF however are not making much noise about that capability (possibly because of internal politics pre SDSR) and no one else is bothered to my knowledge.

                                          Storm shadow needs CFT however.
                                          Well it's debatable. Storm Shadow has a range of 300nm on a lo-lo flight profile, the Typhoon has a range of 2900km with just AAMs and internal fuel. Add a central drop tank and you're still be looking at circa 2500km even with the Storm Shadows, giving a strike radius of at least 1811+km with no aerial refuelling even if you send the missile on the lowest flight profile and easily over 2000km for higher flight profiles. For many nations that is enough, it's only really in fairly exceptional circumstances that one requires a longer range than that. In 1991 over Iraq, most airstrikes took places over <1000km in radius and the range offered with Storm Shadow and a central drop tank is enough to hit Baghdad from Yemen for comparison's sake and more than enough to reach Tehran from Riyadh, without even entering Iranian airspace. In fact in 1991 the longest cruise missile strike was 1500km with a Tomahawk from the Gulf of Oman, strikes from the Persian Gulf were about half that range. For many an airstrike from more than 1800km away with 3 drop tanks isn't really too realistic (or even necessary), unless the enemy is a) useless or b) thoroughly crippled wrt air power and air defence capacity, in which case mid-air refuelling becomes an option. It's an easy fit and the potential is there though should there be any weird export requirements.

                                          Comment


                                           

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