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Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015

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    #21
    Originally posted by xman View Post
    True, my apologies to have poluted the thread. Still interesting to understand how marketing affect the high end combat airplane market space, where decision are primarily made by governememental experts
    One of my experiences with such governmental expert from few years ago - he has sworn they have decided to pick an Agusta A109 for their application mainly because it was "proven Swiss-quality". In the ca fifteen minutes with him I was completely unable to persuade him that the bird was actually Italian-made.
    Last edited by MSphere; 23rd April 2015, 09:59.

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      #22
      More images of the Typhoon painted in the Battle of Britain 75th anniversary scheme.

      http://www.globalaviationresource.co...-breaks-cover/

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        #23
        So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?

        Nic

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          #24
          Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
          So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?
          With Hakenkreuz on the fin.. gosh, that would be a scandal

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            #25
            https://twitter.com/tonylive1978/sta...76850704723970

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              #26
              Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
              So did the germans paint their typhoons in anniversary Me109 markings?

              Nic
              Or a little moustache?

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                #27
                Originally posted by MSphere View Post
                With Hakenkreuz on the fin
                Considering how many GERMANs fought against the NAZIs (or were just murdered by them) probably not, eh?
                Rule zero: don't be on fire

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                  #28
                  The Germans won't even call them 'Typhoons'.

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                    #29
                    http://www.eurofighter.com/downloads/TecGuide.pdf

                    Page 21

                    RARAR CROSS SECTION (RCS)
                    REDUCTION

                    People often consider that RCS is an absolute
                    – you are either stealthy or you not. This is not
                    the case. There are fighters with a relatively
                    large RCS like the F-15 and Flanker; at the other
                    end of the scale the F-22. Eurofighter
                    Typhoon and Gripen sit somewhere in the middle,
                    with high composite structures giving a
                    balanced relatively low RCS but stores mounted
                    externally. But what many do not realise is
                    that one of the principle reflectors back to an
                    enemy aircraft is your own fighter antenna.
                    When we look at a fighter jet what we see
                    is an aerodynamic masterpiece: a sleek nose;
                    a wafer thin profile, and the reflection of many
                    hours of work by thousands of talented people.
                    That’s not what an enemy radar sees.
                    Consider that the aircraft nose is designed to
                    be completely invisible to radar. It has to be,
                    for the aircraft’s radar to work. What their
                    radar sees is, more often than not, a huge reflection
                    straight back off an antenna pointed
                    straight at them.
                    Think of it like this and, instantly, you have
                    a different image of the world of fighter-jets –
                    each flying around with a massive reflector on
                    the front saying ‘I’m here, shoot me first!’
                    Now many of the most recent AESA antennas
                    are tilted up or down 30 from the horizontal.
                    As a result, most of an enemy radar’s
                    incoming energy is harmlessly reflected away
                    from the enemy aircraft. This gives a big reduction
                    in effective RCS.

                    Examples where the AESA antenna is still
                    mounted vertically are either older designs (F-
                    15), or aircraft whose nose size only enables a
                    smaller antenna (F-16 and Rafale).
                    If you already
                    have a small antenna an additional 15%
                    reduction in power (roughly the loss to the
                    aperture at 30) to achieve an RCS reduction
                    is probably a poor pay-off.
                    For Eurofighter Typhoon this is not an issue,
                    our antenna is big enough to mount well
                    over 1400 TRM’s on a large swash-plate.
                    Now you might think that a big reflector
                    may make us vulnerable. Well it would do if
                    the swash-plate didn’t allow us to angle the
                    plate to minimise its profile to enemy eyes.
                    None of our serious competitors with a decent
                    sized antenna, are able to move their radar arrays.
                    They are fixed, usually at about 30 facing
                    upwards and forwards - the usual position
                    for a fixed plate AESA radar.
                    Ours though has a unique range of movement
                    on the swash-plate which maximises its
                    effectiveness and which can minimize vulnerability.
                    You need to consider that we now
                    have a large moveable radar array which has
                    significant reach and which has the best field
                    of regard of any radar out there. It gives us a
                    major advantage.

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                      #30
                      I don't know that posting facts from Eurofighter lovers monthy counts as adding much to the topic other than flamebate.

                      Now if they can tell us about all the other RCS reduction measures built into the aircraft rather than a badly written piece of PR material, that would add something.

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                        #31
                        The part about radar angle is pretty straightforward and accurate. Nobody really talks in depth about RCS reduction measures, just the obvious stuff.

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                          #32
                          But why is the radar mounted tilted up/back? Isn't Typhoon in the interceptor role meant to be flying high and fast and hence mostly be hunting targets below it?

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                            #33
                            Are you confusing the mounting angle of most US fighter AESAs with that of the Typhoon?

                            The Typhoon AESA has a movable mount. It is NOT mounted tilted upward.
                            Juris praecepta sunt haec: honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere.
                            Justinian

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                              #34
                              Ah, I misread. Still, the question remains -- but for F-22.
                              Last edited by Rii; 25th April 2015, 21:08.

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                                #35
                                Originally posted by Rii View Post
                                But why is the radar mounted tilted up/back? Isn't Typhoon in the interceptor role meant to be flying high and fast and hence mostly be hunting targets below it?
                                The Typhoon radar can be tilted anyway you like within 45-50deg, so you can have the range advantage of vertical mounting when you need it, except with a large radar, and you also get RCS reduction advantages by tilting it off-centre when you need it.

                                I like it because it's a simple, pure physical advantage that can be described in plain English, rather than an onslaught of buzz words used to give the impression of an advantage where none exists and baffle customers into contract signature.

                                (The article also says 'up or down 30deg' for newer fixed AESAs.)

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                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by lukos View Post
                                  I like it because it's a simple, pure physical advantage that can be described in plain English
                                  It's also a simple, pure physical drawback that can be described in plain English ; a single point of failure.

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                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by OPIT View Post
                                    It's also a simple, pure physical drawback that can be described in plain English ; a single point of failure.
                                    A very incorrect statement. Assuming you mean the swash-plate jamming, that either leaves it tilted like other new-style large fixed AESA, or vertical, like the Rafale. So this 'single-point failure' only reduces the radar to the functionality of a standard fixed AESA. In reality, it's an electro-mechanical device, shielded from the elements, making it less likely to fail that a whole load of other moving parts on the aircraft, like say, the landing gear. The electrical side is redundant and mechanicals are inherently more reliable than electricals. It does actually depend on the hinge design as to whether it is even a case of a single-point issue. Your statement is ill-conceived.
                                    Last edited by lukos; 26th April 2015, 11:26.

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                                      #38
                                      Originally posted by swerve View Post
                                      Are you confusing the mounting angle of most US fighter AESAs with that of the Typhoon?

                                      The Typhoon AESA has a movable mount. It is NOT mounted tilted upward.
                                      I am a bit confused by the article though,

                                      It seems to me that they discribe 2 possible functions of the swashplate that operates in 2 opposite ways :

                                      The swashplate is supposed to enable wider scaning and tracking range by moving the antenna towards the target but it is now also supposed to enable lower RCS by moving it away from the target.

                                      Isn't that a bit contradictory ?

                                      BTW, couldn't a fixed antenna aircraft achieve the same lower RCS trick by managing the aspect angle of the engagement ?
                                      The Rafale international forum :
                                      http://rafale.freeforums.org/

                                      Rafale news blog :
                                      http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/

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                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Kovy View Post

                                        BTW, couldn't a fixed antenna aircraft achieve the same lower RCS trick by managing the aspect angle of the engagement ?
                                        you mean flying awkward just as an effort to lower a certain aspect of rcs ?
                                        It can be of use towards a know ground based radar,
                                        but flying irrational in an air duel would just be , well irrational

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                                          #40
                                          The repositioner is a great answer to the problem of how to make the Typhoon a long term bet for EA and the new cyber attack roles. It also has the added benefit of reducing the Typhoons head on return to any target.

                                          It's not all about A2A after all. The RAF are anxious to get their hands on the new kit and work it with the F35.

                                          Grumbling about a perceived negative sounds like you are just rooting around for something bad to say about Typhoon. Anyway won't Rafale be getting distributed arrays in the next several years ?

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