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  • FBW
    FBW
    Rank 5 Registered User

    USAF not F-35 thread

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...r-f-22-410575/

    About time, they could have already had scorpion HMS in service. At this rate, the F-22 will have used up half of it's service life by the time all of the weapons and upgrades it should have had are integrated.

    This was from May of last, but speaks to the overall problem with the USAF upgrade path with the F-22.

    http://archive.airforcetimes.com/art...ation-spending
    Last edited by FBW; 26th March 2015, 12:26.
  • FBW
    FBW
    Rank 5 Registered User

    #2
    Didn't see this in the news thread either. The legion pod IRST for F-15, 16. The podded AN/AAS-42 has already flown with aggressor F-16 units.

    http://www.defensenews.com/story/def...-afa/23182593/

    IRST 21 is based on the AN/AAS-42 IRST that flew on the F-14D.

    The new IRST is the next generation of the F-14D AN/AAS-42 IRST that was
    operational aboard U.S. aircraft carriers and accumulated over 200,000 flight hours
    http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/pro...archTrack.html

    Comment

    • FBW
      FBW
      Rank 5 Registered User

      #3
      Excerpts from the Senate armed services committee about USAF:
      At 55 combat coded squadrons, moving to 49, it is also our smallest
      force ever -- by comparison, there were 134 combat coded fighter squadrons in Operation Desert
      Storm.
      The Active Component Air Force is currently 520 fighter pilots short of the total fighter
      pilot manning requirement and our projections indicate this will worsen in the future.
      F-15
      This investment continues modernization of the F-15C/D with
      Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars, a more capable aircraft mission computer, a
      new electronic warfare self-protection suite, and the Eagle Passive/Active Warning Survivability
      System (EPAWSS)
      Nevertheless, we believe currently funded modernization and sustainment programs will facilitate safe and effective operations for all 196 F-15C/D aircraft through at least 2040,
      - interesting, I thought the total "golden eagles was to be 178.

      F-16:
      Unfortunately, there are important capabilities we were not able to
      fund. These include major upgrades like the F-16 Combat Avionics Programmed Extension
      Suite (CAPES) program originally planned to upgrade 300 aircraft
      F-22:
      Increment 3.1 is fielding now and is scheduled for completion in FY17; it is designed to deliver advanced air-ground capabilities including Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) ground mapping, threat geolocation, and a Small
      Diameter Bomb (SDB) carriage. Increments 3.2A and 3.2B remain on track for fielding in 2015 and 2018, respectively.

      Comment

      • Rii
        Rii
        Senior Member

        #4
        Nevertheless, we believe currently funded modernization and sustainment programs will facilitate safe and effective operations for all 196 F-15C/D aircraft through at least 2040
        This is the first time I've seen the number "4" in this context...
        Last edited by Rii; 27th March 2015, 15:39.

        Comment

        • bring_it_on
          2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

          #5
          The have tested it to be suitable till 18,000 hours (airframe). By limiting the hours per year you could maintain a sizable fleet beyond the 2030-2035 time-frame.
          Old radar types never die; they just phased array

          Comment

          • Rii
            Rii
            Senior Member

            #6
            I read Stephen Baxter's novel Flood a couple years back: enormous quantities of water are bubbling up from the Earth's crust, progressively flooding the entire world over several decades, up to and including Mt. Everest. It's hardly a great work of literature (or even science fiction) but it's a fun read, if you like apocalypse fiction.

            I bring it up because in the middle of this novel's extended apocalypse, in the mid-2030s, there is a mass migration of people across the United States, fleeing low-lying places like Florida for the (temporary) safety of Texas. And at one point, this human highway of millions is buzzed by an F-15, apparently keeping an eye on things. The novel describes it as a flying antique.

            So for Stephen Baxter, the idea that USAF would still be flying F-15s in 2035 was an appropriate symbol for and consequence of the beleaguered state of the US government and its efforts to keep abreast of the apocalypse. Meanwhile, in the real world, the same thing is scheduled to occur, courtesy not of all-consuming floodwaters, but as a consequence of the astonishing institutional mismanagement of the last several decades, which has produced on the one hand a remarkable aircraft that the nation can't afford, and on the other a more modest, affordable aircraft that the nation can't afford either.

            Still, I know which tale makes for more interesting reading.
            Last edited by Rii; 30th March 2015, 09:19.

            Comment

            • Nicolas10
              Senior Member

              #7
              Originally posted by bring_it_on View Post
              The have tested it to be suitable till 18,000 hours (airframe). By limiting the hours per year you could maintain a sizable fleet beyond the 2030-2035 time-frame.
              Kind of puts in perspective the F35 fanboys who claim that the Eurocanards aren't going to be relevant past 2020-25 if the F15 is to last until at least 2040

              Nic

              Comment

              • SpudmanWP
                Rank 5 Registered User

                #8
                Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
                Kind of puts in perspective the F35 fanboys who claim that the Eurocanards aren't going to be relevant past 2020-25 if the F15 is to last until at least 2040
                Simple reasoning.

                The F-15 will not be a primary fighter through 2040 as it can count on the combo of F-22/35 for that.

                However, the Eurofighter does not have anything else to fall back on.
                "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                Comment

                • snafu352
                  Rank 5 Registered User

                  #9
                  Mais non... it has.... le Rafale!

                  Joking aside spuddy you win for most nationalist claptrap I've read today.

                  Try widening your knowledge, take a look at the UCAV systems the Euros (including the UK ) are working on.
                  Last edited by snafu352; 26th March 2015, 16:47.
                  The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
                  Bertrand Russell

                  Comment

                  • mrmalaya
                    Generation 4.75+++

                    #10
                    Personally I think the USAF (keeping the thread on track) will be flying alongside Mothership Eurocanards and their UCAV progeny by 2035 anyway.

                    Comment

                    • bring_it_on
                      2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
                      Kind of puts in perspective the F35 fanboys who claim that the Eurocanards aren't going to be relevant past 2020-25 if the F15 is to last until at least 2040

                      Nic
                      I suggest you read the thread title again

                      Having said that the F-15C and F-15E fleets would be on the back of the F-35 Fleet which as per current plans is going to be greater than 2000 units. You also have the F-22A.

                      You then have to factor in that there are over 500 F-18E/F super hornets with the Navy, and there FA-XX efforts should result in some sort of LRIP by the early 2030's. The USAF should also have a 6th generation fighter by the early to mid 2030's. The F-15C and F-15E would not exist as front line fighters in that time-frame. Had there been no F-22's and F-35's you would have replaced them much earlier or taken a capability hit.

                      The USAF isn't claiming that the F-15C in the 2030's will be a cutting edge fighter just like all the F-4 operators in the world at the moment aren't claiming that their fighter is the best in the world.
                      Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                      Comment

                      • Nicolas10
                        Senior Member

                        #12
                        Originally posted by bring_it_on View Post
                        Having said that the F-15C and F-15E fleets would be on the back of the F-35 Fleet which as per current plans is going to be greater than 2000 units. You also have the F-22A.

                        You then have to factor in that there are over 500 F-18E/F super hornets with the Navy, and there FA-XX efforts should result in some sort of LRIP by the early 2030's. The USAF should also have a 6th generation fighter by the early to mid 2030's. The F-15C and F-15E would not exist as front line fighters in that time-frame. Had there been no F-22's and F-35's you would have replaced them much earlier or taken a capability hit.

                        The USAF isn't claiming that the F-15C in the 2030's will be a cutting edge fighter just like all the F-4 operators in the world at the moment aren't claiming that their fighter is the best in the world.
                        That wasn't my point, F18E/F are here to stay, but now it turns out that the F15 too! So with 2000 odd F35s + the F22 fleet, how many bazillion planes do you guys expect to field in 2040?

                        Nic

                        Comment

                        • bring_it_on
                          2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                          #13
                          but now it turns out that the F15 too!
                          That some F-15C's are going to be kept till 18,000 airframe hours was something that has been known for a while. How you stretch that in terms of times depends upon your utilization.
                          Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                          Comment

                          • SpudmanWP
                            Rank 5 Registered User

                            #14
                            Originally posted by snafu352 View Post
                            Mais non... it has.... le Rafale!

                            Joking aside spuddy you win for most nationalist claptrap I've read today.

                            Try widening your knowledge, take a look at the UCAV systems the Euros (including the UK ) are working on.
                            Try actually reading and understanding a post before commenting.

                            There was nothing nationalistic in what I said. All I said was that the F-15C/D can stay in service because the F-15C/D will not have to be the top fighter for the US throughout it's whole lifetime.

                            Neither the Eurofighter nor Rafale have a replacement on the drawing boards at this time. No, UCAVs are not it either. They are barely in their infancy in an A2G role and even assuming they can compete in an A2A role in the next 10-15 years is wishful thinking.
                            "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

                            Comment

                            • Nicolas10
                              Senior Member

                              #15
                              It makes no sense to use the older Hi of a Hi/Lo mix, & use it to be the new Lo mix of your Hi/Mid/Lo mix, esp if budget is running scarce.

                              Nic

                              Comment

                              • bring_it_on
                                2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Nicolas10 View Post
                                It makes no sense to use the older Hi of a Hi/Lo mix, & use it to be the new Lo mix of your Hi/Mid/Lo mix, esp if budget is running scarce.

                                Nic
                                The aircrafts are staying put with upgrades (F-15C's). The F-35A's entering are replacing the units loosing the F-16 capability. That number (both outgoing and incoming) is fixed and the rate of production is reflected in the SAR.

                                In order to replace all the F-15C's ( being retained ) with F-35A's you would need to increase the USAF procurement beyond 2020 from the current plan of 80 a year. That number is dependent on the acquisition dollars available and is unlikely to significantly increase due to other commitments. Then there is the issue of having the life left in them to serve till then. They have already cleared these for a 18K hour service life.
                                Last edited by bring_it_on; 27th March 2015, 05:42.
                                Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                                Comment

                                • snafu352
                                  Rank 5 Registered User

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by SpudmanWP View Post
                                  .
                                  So says you. Remind me who are you again? Oh yes a person on a message board...
                                  I happen to think your assessment is incorrect.

                                  I doubt i'll change your mind but hey ho it isn't going to stop me from pointing out when you make comments that essentially add up to US good everywhere else not so good or behind or bad.

                                  To remind you it was you that stated: "However, the Eurofighter does not have anything else to fall back on. " in a thread titled "USAF not F-35 thread"...
                                  So don't cry about being unjustly labelled mate. Those of us who have been here long enough have seen you do it time and time again.

                                  Your obsession with the bomber, oh sorry strike fighter that shall not be named on this thread, seemingly leads you to dismiss any other method of achieving the tasking's that platform will undertaking.
                                  The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
                                  Bertrand Russell

                                  Comment

                                  • bring_it_on
                                    2005-year of the RAPTOR!!

                                    #18
                                    So says you. Remind me who are you again? Oh yes a person on a message board...
                                    I happen to think your assessment is incorrect.
                                    Are you claiming that the next generation of UCAV's that are being worked upon are fully capable or will be fully capable at induction to replace frontline Air to Air fighters?
                                    Old radar types never die; they just phased array

                                    Comment

                                    • snafu352
                                      Rank 5 Registered User

                                      #19
                                      No.
                                      The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
                                      Bertrand Russell

                                      Comment

                                      • TooCool_12f
                                        Rank 5 Registered User

                                        #20
                                        replace maybe no, but work with, quite possibly. A flight of a manned fighter with a few autonous drones which would follow and fight designated targets could very well be done, including in air to air. While they wouldn't have the capability to analyze the situation like a human could, once the target is designated, you could order them to destroy it and even order a particular tactic. If, today, the video games industry can program the A.I. to "fly" this or that way, chances are that, with the budgets allowed, with hardware available, defence developers will be able to program the A.I. of the drones to do the same.

                                        Comment

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