RuAF News and development Thread part 14

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Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

Ok people, new thread.
its a good time for clean sheets.

Old thread here: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?125974-RuAF-News-and-Development-Thread-part-13/page50

Also, could the good members care to post some current figures and status on RuAF(and RuNavy Aviation) pls.
Seems it would be a good start :)

Original post

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

Let's start with Ka-52 figures:

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1121184.html

The late year delivery brings the total number of birds produced up to 79, including 5 non-serial airframes belonging to Kamov.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,010

It would be nice to know the numbers of older types, the ex soviet planes, now that the newly produced planes arr more common. Are the older airframes being retired on one for one basis as soon as the newer su34, su35 or su30 enter service? How many planes of older types have been retired compared to three years ago?

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1122800.html

KumAPP plans for 2015:
-18 Ka-226 of all types
-4 Ka-32A11BC
-8 Ka-27M for repair and modernization
-2 Ka-27
-5 Ka-29

Prices are indicated as 150 million rubles for Ka-226, 250 million for Ka-32, and 180 million for Ka-27.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,010

Okay, i'll do a list by myself. Probably a bit wrong but people are free to provide additional sources to correct the numbers.

It is based on Zinchuk's and Mladenov's work from two years ago, published in air forces monthly, where they guesstimated then-applicable in service numbers of older planes. I used those figures then subtracted the number equal to newly produced planes to go into service since then. I used su30m2 to replace su27ub, su35s to replace su27s and su30sm to replace mig29 (a big if -i know. Maybe i'm completely wrong there). and of course su34 to replace su24.

So current (january 2015) figures of in-service tactical combat planes might look something like this:

70-120 su27s
30-ish su27ub
20-ish su30m/m2
60-ish su27sm/sm3
34 su35s
65-115 mig29-9.13
50-ish mig29ub (**diminished combat performance since it has no radar)
28 mig29smt
6 mig29ubt (**diminished combat performance since it has no radar)
35-ish su30sm
25-ish su24m
24-ish su24m (gefest upgrade)
30-ish su24m2
64 su34
60-ish mig31bm
40-60 mig31b
120-ish su25
60-ish su25sm
40-ish su25utg (**trainer variant)
60-80 su24mr (**diminished combat perfomance since it's meant for support role)
10-20 mig25 (various recce variants. **diminished combat perfomance since it's meant for support role)
60-ish yak130 trainers (**diminished combat performance)
100-200 L39 trainers (this figure is my guesstimate, i've no sources on this one whatsoever. **also diminished combat performance)
10-15 su-33
14 mig29k

Member for

13 years 6 months

Posts: 1,138

Okay, i'll do a list by myself. Probably a bit wrong but people are free to provide additional sources to correct the numbers.

It is based on Zinchuk's and Mladenov's work from two years ago, published in air forces monthly, where they guesstimated then-applicable in service numbers of older planes. I used those figures then subtracted the number equal to newly produced planes to go into service since then. I used su30m2 to replace su27ub, su35s to replace su27s and su30sm to replace mig29 (a big if -i know. Maybe i'm completely wrong there). and of course su34 to replace su24.

So current (january 2015) figures of in-service tactical combat planes might look something like this:

70-120 su27s
30-ish su27ub
20-ish su30m/m2
60-ish su27sm/sm3
34 su35s
65-115 mig29-9.13
50-ish mig29ub (**diminished combat performance since it has no radar)
28 mig29smt
6 mig29ubt (**diminished combat performance since it has no radar)
35-ish su30sm
25-ish su24m
24-ish su24m (gefest upgrade)
30-ish su24m2
64 su34
60-ish mig31bm
40-60 mig31b
120-ish su25
60-ish su25sm
40-ish su25utg (**trainer variant)
60-80 su24mr (**diminished combat perfomance since it's meant for support role)
10-20 mig25 (various recce variants. **diminished combat perfomance since it's meant for support role)
60-ish yak130 trainers (**diminished combat performance)
100-200 L39 trainers (this figure is my guesstimate, i've no sources on this one whatsoever. **also diminished combat performance)
10-15 su-33
14 mig29k

call me naive, but I thought there were hundreds of Su-27, 24s and MiG-29 variants in service. These combined numbers are way less than I thought. If it is close to reality, it is an eye opener.

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

I tried last year to post up a inventory list, but its of no use..

But if we can put up the newer units here:

Mig-31BM
Approx 56, with another upgrade contract for 40 more.
Thats will leave us with i little under 100 Mig-31BM. It also seems all remaining Foxhound will be BM variants.
And they will be around for quite some time with newer weapons and other systems. We are talking 2025-30 time line.
There can be little doubt that VVS and RuNavy will prioritize the world class Interceptors for years to come.

Flankers:
We knew a few years back that there was six air regiments of Flanker(+ one Su-33 Regimet), but who can really tell with the last few years of huge Re-structure of RuAF.
Its pretty clear that some Flanker Regiment will get put on reserve or even mothballed as new Flanker enter operational status.
I'm also pretty sure there will not be six fully Flanker Regiments in future VVS structure.

Last year the first active Airbase/Air Regiment of Su-35S at Dzemgi airbase in the Khabarovsk Region, according to the Defense Ministry(funny how they call 12 units for a Air Regiment..?).
http://sputniknews.com/military/20140212/187462295/Russia-Arms-Air-Regiment-in-Far-East-With-Su-35S-Fighter-Jets.html
34 out of 48 Su-35S delivered so far.
There exist contract or 72 Su-30SM, 12 for RuNavy and 60 for VVS.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2014-09-19/russia-orders-more-su-30sm-fighters
Dunno about the current Su-30M2 figures?
Add 20 Su-33 as well.

Report suggest KnAAZ and IAPO has delivered some 53 Su-35S, Su-30M2 and Su-30SM in 2014
http://youtu.be/c5QLd16X1Zg?t=5m20s
Personaly i find these figure a little optimistic.

Su-34 & Su-24M
Its 1000% certain that there will not be a 1/1 Su-34/Su-24M replacement.
2-3 years ago, the Su-24M and Su-24MR figures listed about 300.
This site reports 160 Su-24M & 40 Su-24M2
http://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/al-31fm1/

No way there exist 300 Su-24M in service right now.
The Su-34 are produced at current rate of 18 last year, it might get higher this year.
http://itar-tass.com/sibir-news/1186096
32+ 92 = total 124 units on contract.
The current Su-34 figures delivered so far are about 65, with at least one Su-34 Airbase/Air regiment on active service.

Mig-29
We know about the 28'ish SMT and 20 Mig-29K, 4 Mig-29KUB for RuNavy.
There are reports about some Mig-29 9.12 that have been overhauled, but its unclear if they did modify them at all.
There exist a contract for approx 16 Mig-29SMT i believe.
So my guess are as good as anyone about any total figures.

Su-25
Last year in Combat Aircraft Monthly, i read a figure about 7 Su-25 Air Regiments.
I have no clue what so ever if this is true or not.
The replacment for Su-25 are still very much out in the blue..

Feel free to correct me.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579


70-120 su27s Higher end IMO
30-ish su27ub More IMO
28 mig29smt Plus 16 in the next two years
35-ish su30sm Should be 37 though 2014
25-ish su24m I suspect more, but it is hard to factor in which are M2 and Gefest upgraded.
24-ish su24m (gefest upgrade) Many more. By late 2013 they upgraded at least 50 airframes quietly with Gefest, and supposedly intended more. Have not heard much since.
30-ish su24m2 At least 24, but no more than 48. NAPO upgraded 24, but insiders claimed another ARZ took over from there.
40-60 mig31b More.
60-ish su25sm At the end of 2013, there were 79
40-ish su25utg (**trainer variant) Much less, probably less than 10 flying
60-ish yak130 trainers (**diminished combat performance) Should be pushing past 70 by now IIRC.

Just some initial comments. I have a table I keep for myself with relatively decent numbers scrounged from Ru-web, but I am not at home right now and can't access it.

When I get back I will post what I have for rotary assets and we can all compare.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1121184.html

From this link regarding the recent Ka-52 news, the contracts with Progress are listed as:
-2009 contract for 36 serial birds
-2011 contract for 143 serial birds

I guess this does not include Ka-52K? Either way, did not realize that many were already contracted. Eagerly awaiting for Vihr-1 to appear, and the Ka-52 will finally get a solid new ATGM....until Hermes actually appears.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,010

It would make sense to put m1 or even m2 engines (when ready) into su30, since they're heavier and less agile as it is.

TR1, when you make time, do post the info and sources you have, by all means. Thank you.

Member for

12 years 4 months

Posts: 2,171


Mig-31BM
Approx 56, with another upgrade contract for 40 more.
Thats will leave us with i little under 100 Mig-31BM. It also seems all remaining Foxhound will be BM variants.

No, many more. 70+ (some GLITs/MiG frames in here tho + one lost) between MiG-31BM and BSM. And by now one would think you would know it is written MiG, not Mig. ;) And the contracts were for 60+50, 110 in total.


34 out of 48 Su-35S delivered so far.
Dunno about the current Su-30M2 figures?
Add 20 Su-33 as well.

The current Su-34 figures delivered so far are about 65, with at least one Su-34 Airbase/Air regiment on active service.

No, there is 27 Su-35S' unless they quietly delivered 7 more. They handed over 2013 batch in very early 2014 for example.
20 Su-30M2's iirc.
No ******* way there is 20 operational Su-33's. More like 12-14 or so.
So far there is 57 Su-34's, not 64.

Upon searching the news archive, it looks like both Su-27SM and SM2 fly with AL-31FM1 engines.
And service life is up to 2000 hours.

No. Only Su-27SM under the second contract (aka "SM2") got FM1's.

Just some initial comments. I have a table I keep for myself with relatively decent numbers scrounged from Ru-web, but I am not at home right now and can't access it.

When I get back I will post what I have for rotary assets and we can all compare.

Only 24 Su-24M2's around, but no clue how many Gefest ones.

Member for

13 years 6 months

Posts: 1,138

No, many more. 70+ (some GLITs/MiG frames in here tho + one lost) between MiG-31BM and BSM. And by now one would think you would know it is written MiG, not Mig. ;) And the contracts were for 60+50, 110 in total.

No, there is 27 Su-35S' unless they quietly delivered 7 more. They handed over 2013 batch in very early 2014 for example.
20 Su-30M2's iirc.
No ******* way there is 20 operational Su-33's. More like 12-14 or so.
So far there is 57 Su-34's, not 64.

No. Only Su-27SM under the second contract (aka "SM2") got FM1's.

Only 24 Su-24M2's around, but no clue how many Gefest ones.

Do you have an approximate figure for each type in operational status as we speak without taking under consideration sub-types?

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 1,010

i would much rather know the organisation by physical airfield/airbase and by type. This and this regiment having this and this type of plane is present at this airfield.

For example - mig29. At previous organisation with airgroups 2-3 years ago - mig29 were seen at following combat bases:
Khalino/kursk
Millerovo
Chita/Domna

Plus semipermanantly (?) deployed unit (of smaller strength?) at Erevan/Yerebuni

In addition to those, mig29s were of course seen at fyling schools and development/tactics centers:
Armavir
Lipetsk
Astrakhan
Kubinka

Possibly in other bases too like Akhtubinsk and Kuschevskaya in small numbers.

I've checked GE images, mig29 seem to be moving around airfields in all these airbases, so they might be active in all of them.

Issue is numbers. How many mig29 in regiment (as per new regimental orbat)?
How many mig29 devoted to testing?
How many mig29 for flying schools?
How many for tactics development?

Correction: in my previous posts i wrote 40 su25utg. I was really thinking of su25ub there and i omitted su25utg completely. So su25ub and su25utg combined perhaps 50-ish airframes active?

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

No, many more. 70+ (some GLITs/MiG frames in here tho + one lost) between MiG-31BM and BSM. And by now one would think you would know it is written MiG, not Mig. ;) And the contracts were for 60+50, 110 in total.

110 then.

Mig MIG mIg miG mig, really, who cares


20 Su-30M2's iirc.

That would be the total delivered, and on contract?

No ******* way there is 20 operational Su-33's. More like 12-14 or so.
So far there is 57 Su-34's, not 64.

I didn't say operational. But there should be around 18-20 Su-33.
Older sources state the Admiral Kuznetzov operated 16 Su-33.
But it fair to think this is lower figures today.
RuNavy are after all on the verge of fielding Mig-29K.

Did you include the latest Su-34 batch delivered from KnAAZ?

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/news/company/?id=5584

No. Only Su-27SM under the second contract (aka "SM2") got FM1's.

I find that very hard to believe. Sources?
The state test for AL-31FM1 finnished sometime in 2002. Are you saying they only build some 60 engines between then and now?

"United Engine Corporation in 2014-2016 years under short term contracts for defense procurement task is to produce more than 1300 aircraft engine, 708 engine should be repaired", - Rogozin said. According to him, this is a big ambitious program that includes not only the organization of production, but also the vision of the prospects for the near future."

http://oborona.gov.ru/news/view/1540

What did KnAAZ do with those Su-33 a few years back, i recalled there was some pictures of them in factory.

Member for

9 years 3 months

Posts: 2

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1122800.html

KumAPP plans for 2015:
-18 Ka-226 of all types
-4 Ka-32A11BC
-8 Ka-27M for repair and modernization
-2 Ka-27
-5 Ka-29

(New on this forum)
For the Ka-29, i assume it is the new Ka-29M variant, for the Mistral.
But the Mistral deal is apparently dead, so i don't know what will happens to this order. A shame for the Ka-52K too, the program seemed to be very promising.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

(New on this forum)
For the Ka-29, i assume it is the new Ka-29M variant, for the Mistral.
But the Mistral deal is apparently dead, so i don't know what will happens to this order. A shame for the Ka-52K too, the program seemed to be very promising.

Hi, yes you are probably correct regarding Ka-29.

However I would not say Mistral is dead, but in limbo. Hollande has stated repeatedly if the political situation eases, sanctions should be lifted. It seems to me the French would rather the situation politically allow them to deliver the boats than deal with the mess that will occur if the deal is axed. The Russian mil has basically said they will "wait for whatever decision comes", so I guess they understand the French position. Hysterics like Rogozin aside no one is really screaming about hardcore lawsuit pursuits just yet.

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13 years 5 months

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http://lenta.ru/news/2015/01/05/helicopter/

Oh my god, I thought I would never live to see the day.
RuAF has started construction shelters for its helicopters.
The first will be built @ Korenovsk, for 70 helicopters of the Mi-8, Mi-24/35, Mi-26 and Ka-52 types.

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13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

http://cs624823.vk.me/v624823360/f698/ajezrjHWtgw.jpg

Shelter @ Belbek.

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Posts: 4,731

Hi, yes you are probably correct regarding Ka-29.

However I would not say Mistral is dead, but in limbo. Hollande has stated repeatedly if the political situation eases, sanctions should be lifted. It seems to me the French would rather the situation politically allow them to deliver the boats than deal with the mess that will occur if the deal is axed. The Russian mil has basically said they will "wait for whatever decision comes", so I guess they understand the French position. Hysterics like Rogozin aside no one is really screaming about hardcore lawsuit pursuits just yet.


The problem is France is no position to lift sanctions. so it matter little to Russia what French say. they better refund the money.
it is more desperation cry from Hollande as Oil price collapse will surely evaporate whats remaining of French exports and surplus foreign investment in France.

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http://cs624823.vk.me/v624823360/f698/ajezrjHWtgw.jpg

Shelter @ Belbek.

News of Il-96s going to be assessed for tanker duty by the Russian airforce. Would be good thing as I see the need for more tankers a great need. Russia should have alteast 70 to 100 tankers. 39 new II-76s is fine on top of 30 updated current tankers plus 30 II-96s would be perfect. Such a large land mass with ability to project forces from Asia to Europe vis versa is mandatory