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By: - 12th November 2014 at 20:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well Paralay, judging by personal experience, you're probably going to be shortly threatened with a ban by the moderators here, or even banned altogether. After all, how dare you divert from the official Washington& cronies party line, we all know the only truth comes from them, they would never lie to us... and if you don't believe it and even worse, doubt it, you might be a terrorist or a communist... :mad:
By: - 12th November 2014 at 21:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well Paralay, judging by personal experience, you're probably going to be shortly threatened with a ban by the moderators here, or even banned altogether. After all, how dare you divert from the official Washington& cronies party line, we all know the only truth comes from them, they would never lie to us... and if you don't believe it and even worse, doubt it, you might be a terrorist or a communist... :mad:
Wherever the evidence points. Let's wait for the official sources.
By: - 12th November 2014 at 21:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Growing evidence for the fact that the Malaysian "Boeing" was shot down by fighter
http://msk.kp.ru/daily/26306/3184995/
Then why does the pattern of the damage to the airframe resemble that created by a SAM rather than an AIM?
As FalconDude wisely says, let us wait for the official report.
(Any suggestions that old Mercurius is a fully signed-up member of the "official Washington& cronies party line" will have to wait for a few weeks until I get back from a trip to an unmentionable facility in Wales.)
By: - 12th November 2014 at 21:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well Paralay, judging by personal experience, you're probably going to be shortly threatened with a ban by the moderators here, or even banned altogether. After all, how dare you divert from the official Washington& cronies party line, we all know the only truth comes from them, they would never lie to us... and if you don't believe it and even worse, doubt it, you might be a terrorist or a communist... :mad:
We'll just have to place all our faith in the colonel of the KGB himself, Polkovnik Putin...:rolleyes:
By: - 13th November 2014 at 15:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Because Russian media outlets are completely un-biased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_Russia
Meanwhile.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30039004
Ukraine crisis: Russian 'Cargo 200' crossed border - OSCE
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30025138
Ukraine crisis: Russian troops crossed border, Nato says
By: - 13th November 2014 at 18:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Origin of the Separatists’ Buk: A Bellingcat Investigation November 8, 2014
There is a comments section at the end of the article.
PDF article link.
By: - 13th November 2014 at 19:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ok Moskovsky Komosomlets isn't that much above Pravda. I know as I lived in Russia a number of years and I've read it. Before paralay questions me. As for Brown Moses aka bellingcat. Well this is a guy who apparently is called a weapons expert after sitting at home studying YouTube vids of the Syrian war despite no education or training in weapons engineering. Besides his blog post definitively showing the Syrian army fired those rockets was blown out the water by MIT professors. So anything he writes I'd take with a pinch of salt.
By: - 13th November 2014 at 21:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
May I ask as to WHY this was posted here?.....it has NOTHING to do with Modern Military Aviation. It certainly is an inflammatory article / comment, and it seems like it was deliberately set to incite / solicit anti Russian comments in response.
Perhaps this is better moved to say "Modern Missiles".....I don;t know....but it sure doesn;t seem to belong here.
I'm relatively new here, but are posts/comments like this allowed?......
By: - 13th November 2014 at 22:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
""New radar data indicating that military aircraft were in the air near Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 when it crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17 has been released by a Russian air safety consultancy.
The consultancy provided a snapshot representing the readings taken by a radar station located in Russia’s Rostov, near the Ukrainian border, shortly before and about 20 minutes after the MH17 crash. The snapshot was given to Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper.
According to Sergey Melnichenko, CEO of Aviation Safety consultancy, there were one or two warplanes in the air close to the Malaysian airliner. The data casts doubt on the version of the tragedy favored by Western nations, which claims the plane was shot down from the ground by rebel forces with a sophisticated surface-to-air missile.
The data “came from an air traffic control center in Rostov,” Melnichenko said, declining to reveal which one and whether it was civilian or military. He assured that “we have full trust in the sources, which helped us make it available to the public.”
“The data clearly shows that at the moment of the crash and after it there were planes moving north of the Boeing course. Most likely, they were military, because the spots are very close to each other. The conclusion is that there were either one or two aircraft there,” Melnichenko told the daily.
The alleged military plane or planes are represented by blue spots tagged 'T,' while MH17’s route is marked by a purple line. (image from www.aviasafety.ru)The alleged military plane or planes are represented by blue spots tagged 'T,' while MH17’s route is marked by a purple line. (image from www.aviasafety.ru)
Another indication that the planes in question were military aircraft is the fact that they didn’t respond to being scanned, Melnichenko said. Civilian planes always reply to signals from radar, while military aircraft are “usually unequipped with transmitter-responders or the pilots turn them off during combat flights,” he explained.
With the rebel forces possessing no air force of their own, Russia and Ukraine are the most logical parties to send warplanes to that area, the expert said. But it would have been impossible for a Russian warplane to make it over the border without being detected by Ukrainian and NATO radars.
“There would’ve been reaction on something like that long ago – from NATO and Ukraine. But there was no reaction because there was nothing to react to,” he explained.
A man on the crash site of the MH 17 Malaysian Boeing that was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko) A man on the crash site of the MH 17 Malaysian Boeing that was en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko)
Several days after the MH17 crash, the Russian Defense Ministry released evidence that it detected a Ukrainian fighter jet near the Boeing at the time of the catastrophe. Kiev denied deploying any jets on that day, but it had been routinely using aviation to deliver airstrikes at rebel positions.
READ MORE: Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow
According to Melnichenko, the new data is consistent with that published by the military.
“Our data is somewhat more precise...they didn’t present the airplane’s flight paths as clearly. But maybe they did it intentionally, I don’t know,” he said.
At the crush site of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, outside the village of Grabovo, near Shakhtyorsk, Donetsk Region. (RIA Novosti / Mikhail Voskresenskiy) At the crush site of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, outside the village of Grabovo, near Shakhtyorsk, Donetsk Region. (RIA Novosti / Mikhail Voskresenskiy)
The expert added that the presence of military planes north of the Boeing would put them in a position to the left of the plane. Some photos from the crash site showed damage to the cockpit’s left side, consistent with a scenario of an attack by those planes.
READ MORE: MH17 might have been shot down from air – chief Dutch investigator
All 298 people aboard Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were killed when the airliner crashed on July 17. The plane was downed over the warzone in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, where Kiev authorities imposed after the February coup launched a military crackdown on rebels rejecting the change of power.
Both sides involved in the conflict have accused each other of bringing down the aircraft. Kiev and its Western sponsors claim it was shot by a BUK defense missile system brought from Russia, and hold Moscow accountable for the tragedy. No evidence has ever been presented, except for questionable photos floating online which claim to show the system.
OSCE experts examine the crash site of the Boeing aircraft of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko) OSCE experts examine the crash site of the Boeing aircraft of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17/MAS17) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. (RIA Novosti / Alexey Kudenko)
In late October, the chief investigator with the Dutch National Prosecutors' Office, Fred Westerbeke, told Der Spiegel magazine that his team is open to the theory that another plane shot down the Malaysian airliner.
According to its website, Aviation Safety consultancy and analysis agency provides information, advice, and analytical services in the field of aviation safety for the members of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), a collective of former Soviet republics.""
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By: - 13th November 2014 at 22:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
""New radar data indicating that military aircraft were in the air near Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 when it crashed in eastern Ukraine on July 17 has been released by a Russian air safety consultancy.
Please, link your sources.
Such a report has zero value without knowing its origin and date.
By: - 14th November 2014 at 00:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Please, link your sources.
Such a report has zero value without knowing its origin and date.
http://rt.com/news/205339-mh17-air-plane-malaysian/
the only "news" agency that is still interested into digging who shot down the plane, there is a reason why ukraine is stalling all these "independant" investigations- they are hopeing that whatever evidence is there can dissapear with time. but unfortunately for them... the radar data is there
By: - 14th November 2014 at 02:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Only after radiation levels set off alarms at the Forsmark Nuclear Power Plant in Sweden, over one thousand kilometers from the Chernobyl Plant, did the Soviet Union admit that an accident had occurred. Nevertheless, authorities attempted to conceal the scale of the disaster. For example, after evacuating the city of Pripyat, the following warning message was read on the state TV:There has been an accident at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant. One of the nuclear reactors was damaged. The effects of the accident are being remedied. Assistance has been provided for any affected people. An investigative commission has been set up.
—Vremya, 28 April 1986 (21:00)[60]This was the entirety of the announcement of the accident. Tass then discussed Three Mile Island and other American nuclear accidents, an example of the common Soviet tactic of emphasizing foreign disasters when one occurred in the Soviet Union.
From Wikipedia...
By: - 14th November 2014 at 05:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://rt.com/news/205339-mh17-air-plane-malaysian/the only "news" agency that is still interested into digging who shot down the plane, there is a reason why ukraine is stalling all these "independant" investigations- they are hopeing that whatever evidence is there can dissapear with time. but unfortunately for them... the radar data is there
yes indeed. because all the other news agencies are not investigating it.. they must be wrong!
By: - 14th November 2014 at 11:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No wonder the OFCOM is trying to shut down RT :o
Nic
By: - 14th November 2014 at 16:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://rt.com/news/205339-mh17-air-plane-malaysian/the only "news" agency that is still interested into digging who shot down the plane, there is a reason why ukraine is stalling all these "independant" investigations- they are hopeing that whatever evidence is there can dissapear with time. but unfortunately for them... the radar data is there
Ooooh too bad... :apologetic:
Some would say it's only russian propaganda. :apologetic:
:ironic:
By: - 14th November 2014 at 22:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How come russian news are propaganda & western news are, well... news?
From the very little watching I do of the news in France (because it tends to irritate me), I can tell you that it is actually propaganda & not news.
Even if RT was spouting propaganda, I can assure you that it's no worse than what I can see in the french media.
Nic
By: - 15th November 2014 at 00:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Meanwhile, it's all over the news. Alleged leaked satellite images of the MH17 shotdown.
By: - 15th November 2014 at 00:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
How come russian news are propaganda & western news are, well... news?From the very little watching I do of the news in France (because it tends to irritate me), I can tell you that it is actually propaganda & not news.
Even if RT was spouting propaganda, I can assure you that it's no worse than what I can see in the french media.
Nic
I agree.
I would say more : there is less propaganda in RT than in France 2.
Sometimes propaganda is not telling lies but telling nothing.
And on France 2 there is strictly nothing about the battles around Donetsk.
By: - 15th November 2014 at 01:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I agree.
I would say more : there is less propaganda in RT than in France 2.
Speaking of France 2, I still fondly remember one episode of "envoyé special" where the journalists were going disguised and with hidden cam so some terrorist organization wouldn't know they are in the country and kidnap them, while they were going to... interview the chief of that organization :D
Nic
By: - 15th November 2014 at 01:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The info-battle is getting hot.
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-satellite-image-of-a-ukrainian-fighter-shooting-dow-1658910062
Posts: 1,344
By: paralay - 12th November 2014 at 20:01
These controllers have confirmed: next to "Boeing", collapsed in the Ukraine, flew military aircraft
http://www.mk.ru/incident/2014/11/12/dannye-aviadispetcherov-podtverdili-ryadom-s-boingom-rukhnuvshim-na-ukraine-letel-voennyy-samolet.html
Growing evidence for the fact that the Malaysian "Boeing" was shot down by fighter
http://msk.kp.ru/daily/26306/3184995/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157647103776802/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/72157646920425903/
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